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Habu Veteran user Texas / Alabama 393 Posts |
This has probably been asked before, but I cannot find it with a search (probably searching with wrong phrase) -- please redirect me if this is discussed.
I am doing some gaffed coin work with HH, C/S/B, S/S, as well as non-gimmicked routines. I bought 3 DVDs on gaffed coins (L&L's Worlds greatest series on Copper Silver Brass, and a second on the E/S and a third from Royal Magic on 25 Scotch and Soda effects) The hosts of the DVDs talk about ways to end clean, letting the coins be examined etc. On one of the DVDs, Doc Eason talked about examining the coins. He was referring to using Copper Silver Brass as an opener to the act, and stressed that he does not let the audience examine the coins (even though he ends clean) because there is no entertainment value added to the routine, and it actually slows things down. I imagine also that if you let people examine the coins with the first routine, they are going to want to examine them after (or during) every routine. Obviously the coin will be examined with Scotch and Soda, but with other routines, do you let people examine them through out your performance, or only at the end of the act? I understand Doc Eason's point, but am not that convinced that examining coins presents that much of a problem. I'm curious if most coin men (and women) use coin examination throughout their show, or if they restrict it in some way.
www.magicbyhabu.com
Real name: Rick Jackson Habu: Taken from SR-71 spy plane I worked on. It's name came from a poisonous snake on Okinawa. Hope my magic isn't poisonous! |
davidpaul$ Inner circle Georgetown, South Carolina 3086 Posts |
I perform in restaurants so my time is limited per table. I do several coin routines and yes at the beginning of the performance I let a person(s) take a look at the coin(s). Like Eason's routine with the CSB I intitially let them look at the different coins. In a Coins Across routine (Paul Gertner's) I let them look at the 4 coins initially. In a Coin Flurry routine ( David Roth) I let them look at the coin. After that No ! I do the magic, let it sink in for a beat or two then smoothly move into another direction. BTW in the Coin Flurry routine the coin is changed to a Jumbo size coin and everyone wants to touch that one and I let them.
David Paul
Guilt will betray you before technique betrays you!
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Bedford Special user Louisville, KY 672 Posts |
I'm not the first (or hundredth) person to say this, but half dollars, English pennies, and "Chinese" coins are not common coins, and people will be more inclined to want to see them. Like David, I perform in venues where my time per table is limited (hospitality suites, corporate dinners, etc.) so in many cases the examination of props is not an issue. Good routining helps as well.
However, I have found myself over the years moving away from gaffed coins, for example doing C/S/B with straight coins so that in those cases where someone wants to examine them it's ok. I also use more routines with quarters these days for the same reasons. It's a difficult choice because the gaffed coins are so nice to use, and there is a great visual appeal to using some of the bigger and more colorful coins.
The Alchemy Moon Collective
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Dan Watkins Inner circle PA 3028 Posts |
Personally, I like to build routines that put the coins into the spectator's hands as part of the structure of the routine. So I am not overtly saying, "Here inspect this." I even like putting gaff coins in their hands, you can do this very well with proper management of the gaff. The combination of using their hands with a gaff is extremely strong, since they are handling the coins everthing seems above board. The most basic way of doing this is routining an ending that puts the coins in their hands.
If I don't have a routine that uses the spectator's hands here is another ruse I may use. I keep a coin purse that has several types of coins in it. Often I will start digging coins out, 1 or 2 at a time, and ask the spectator to hold them for me (which frees up my hands to retrieve more coins). So you again have put the coins in their hands under the guise of them helping you free your hands. |
Mediocre the Great Inner circle Rich Hurley 1062 Posts |
Many of my coin routines start with nothing and end with nothing. There's nothing to examime and they don't care. It looks like magic.
I don't like to take time with examining the coins. Also, like Dan says, I like to involve the audience so during key times in a routine they actually do touch the coins. No special attention is brought to it. Dan, that's a great suggestion about having the spec hold coins as you take them out of the purse! That said, I always like to end clean. With coins that can be examined if they grab for them, or by ending up with nothing to examine. There are millions of ways to manage this in your routining. Finally, if you want to have the audience examine the coins, go for it. See how it works for your style and routines. If you think it bogs you down too much, then mix it up and change your approach. I know plenty of great magicians who have their audience examine the coins...There's no set rule here.
Mediocrity is greatly under rated!
-------------------------------------------- Rich Hurley aka Mediocre The Great! www.RichHurleyMagic.com |
The Great Dave Loyal user My Wife said "It's Me or that Stupid Magic Website!" this many times. 203 Posts |
Dan is the master here and he knows it better than I possibly could. In my shows all my coin effects are gaffed - as Don Allen said "Gaff everything" - and I end up clean by ditching everything and moving on. Everything in my sets is very expensive to me as it is all Lassen or Schoolcraft. My biggest fear is having a Spec drop a gaff.
Although it seems logical, if I handed over my $300 Lassen $2.85 trick for examination after the routine to anyone but my wife I would have a panic attack. I let the spectators touch anything they want with the duplicate coins and do a switch out for the gaffs during the routine. As an example, when I do Silver, Copper, Brass I start out with the duplicate coin of what will become the gaff in the routine. The coin is large and not familiar to the Spec so I go into something of a "This is rare, here is where I got it, interesting don't you think.." conversation. I take it back, hand them the next coin I already have waiting, and run the same patter. During this I put the duplicate back in my jacket pocket and pull out the third coin plus the gaff and wait to pass the third coin for examination. Now, at the beginning of the effect the Spec has seen all three coins and I run the routine. At the end, all the coins go back into the pocket and I move on to the next trick. Going back to examine all the coins would burst the flow of presentation. I control the ending of the effect and when all the coins go into my pocket that is it. Even though you could swap out for duplicates at the end, to me you always need to move forward and not go backwards. One of my favorite responses to a question like "Let me see those coins or cards or whatever again" in any situation is to respond "I have something even better to show you!" Best Wishes, Dave
Academy of Magical Arts
Hey Rocky, watch me pull a rabbit out of my hat! Whoops, wrong hat ... |
mcharisse Inner circle York. PA 1226 Posts |
I've noticed increasing numbers of spectators asking to see coins, not because they are suspicious, but because they have never seen these older coins before and are curious. So I think in small groups its good to have a few ungaffed coins they can look at. Not as in, "here, examine this coin and make sure its not gimmicked," of course, but a couple that can lay on the table and be picked up if the spectator is curious. Or start a routine with an ungaffed coin they can look at before adding a gaff.
Marc |
Kex Special user Arlington, Texas 577 Posts |
Not doing a lot of coin routines here. But it seems to me that all issues can be worked around with routining and audience management. Just like card effects that use gaffed cards. To me with a good routine a gaff will never be expected. Once the initial newness of some of the foreign coins we use wears off the audience won't want to see them anyway. Just when they are first brought out.
Kex |
Jaz Inner circle NJ, U.S. 6111 Posts |
I've always avoided handing out any props just so they can be examined.
Brad Burt has given some thoughts on this subject here http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewt......um=219&0 and here. http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewt......um=219&0 |
magicbob116 Inner circle 1522 Posts |
Quote:
On 2008-03-01 12:40, Dan Watkins wrote: I agree 100% with Dan's thinking on this (as well as Brad's posts linked to above). Whenever possible, I try to get cards, coins, etc. in the spectator's hands for some reason OTHER than to examine them. The net result is the perception that the coins were examined, but the psychology behind it is completely different. So you don't open yourself up as much to the spectator expecting to inspect your props during the NEXT routine where perhaps they are NOT examinable. This is somewhat analagous to discussions of block turn-overs, etc. on the card forums (or for that matter just about everything we do). You want to implicitly plant in the spectator's mind the motivation for WHY you turned the card over, or WHY you placed the coin in their hand (other than to examine it), etc. I share the concerns expressed about putting expensive gaffs in the spectator's hand, but I have used several of Dan's routines from Coin Man Walking that do just this (of course, I'm only using "cheap" Johnson's gaffs) with great success. Bob Day 2
B. Robert Pulver
The "I Hate Card Tricks!" Book of Card Tricks Vol. 1, 2, and 3 Kards for Kids Sticky Situations Sleightly Wacky http://www.magicnook.com/magicbob |
Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27297 Posts |
If you take out unusual coins, you can pretty much expect the audience to want to touch them just because they want to go from sight to touch/sound for themselves - not expecting to find anything wrong with them - it's just human nature to want to do that.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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Habu Veteran user Texas / Alabama 393 Posts |
Thanks for all of your views on this. Some of what you said is already how I felt on the matter, and other's thoughts have given me better insight into coin work.
Thank you all for your thoughts. I guess I need to buy a 20 centavo piece and an english penny. I recently did HH and as soon as I said, "this is an english penny" the young lady said "OH let me see that . . .", I quickly said, "wait and see what it does first!" and went on with the routine (ending up of course with nothing in my hand to examine), but if I had had a real english penny I could have said, "sure, take a look at it, and then I'll show you what happens when . . ."
www.magicbyhabu.com
Real name: Rick Jackson Habu: Taken from SR-71 spy plane I worked on. It's name came from a poisonous snake on Okinawa. Hope my magic isn't poisonous! |
mballen11502 Loyal user Memphis, TN 202 Posts |
I think it just depends on the routine you are performing. For something like CoinOne I like to perform the effect and then let the spectators examine the coins (for obvious reasons). For effects using quarters or other common coins it's less of an issue. When I use my walking liberty halves, I like to let the spectators examine the coins before I do anything with them. I also find that having the spectator examine the normal coins provides the necessary misdirection to bring [s or other gaffs into play. Hope this helps.
M |
Wes65 Inner circle I've said very little in 1219 Posts |
I find that handing out coins can be an ice breaker. "Have you ever seen one of these?"
Wes
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THEGUY26 (Will Swanson) Inner circle Minnesota, USA 2379 Posts |
You can get English Pennies really cheap at The Magic Warehouse.
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DonHarlan Loyal user Richmond, VA 296 Posts |
I like to hand out some coins by palming off a shell and doing a toss to the other hand, But with others like the Chinese misers dream, I rarely let them touch the coins because I think the added mystery with them adds to the effect. But I would always have a non gaff coin to show at anytime just in case they ask, because if you say no, the magic is over. I've only come across problems with wanting to touch the coins when strolling doing magic.
“Disbelief in magic can force a poor soul into believing in government and business.”-Tom Robbins
<BR> <BR>“One man's "magic" is another man's engineering".-Robert A. Heinlein |
Curtis Kam V.I.P. same as you, plus 3 and enough to make 3498 Posts |
Based on my experience, and the above, it seems these are the "rules":
1. Whether you need to hand the coins out for examination depends upon the effect that you're going to do, are doing, or did. Effects such as the Chinese Miser's Dream do not require examination, since (in the layman's mind) there is no way that a coin could be gimmicked so that it could make another one appear. So what would they be looking for in the first place? 2. That said, there are still reasons why you'd want to allow examination, even in those efffects, since odd coins do invite curiosity. You obviate interruptions if you have the coins examined at the outset. This is important in the context of the copper/silver transposition. You don't want the first time you hand the spectator the English Penny to be when you're hoping she'll close her hand and not look at it. 3. Handing your props out for examination is practically never the most exciting conclusion you could hope for. Jumbo coins almost always invite examination. So do you really want to end your set with a jumbo coin? If you're interested, I cover this is a little more depth in The Pocketbook, available at ckhmagic.com. Therein the solution to the Jumbo coin problem and why the best way to hand something out is not to hand it out.
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MagicAggie Regular user 124 Posts |
I try to construct the routines to that the spectators examine the coins before I start the trick (similar to Real World CSB on Cody Fisher's DVD). Then I switch them out for the gaffed coins before starting.
If I'm going to let them examine the coins afterwards, I will misdirect them toward the end while I palm the coins to be passed out. Then when I finish with the gaffed coins, I have the others available for examination. Once I hand the spectator the coins to look at, I ditch the gaffs while they're distracted. |
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Trick coin trickery » » Examine coins or not? What do you do? (0 Likes) |
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