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Tom Cutts Staff Northern CA 5925 Posts |
How can expectations influence an outcome? Typically people find what they are searching for, it is how we are wired. Our brains can answer nearly any question... too many people just happen to be asking the wrong questions.
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mindpunisher Inner circle 6132 Posts |
>>>>>>" he said two experimenters carried out the same experiment - one found evidence for influence, one didn't. I'm saying that they can't both be correct, and I suspect the second one was barking up the right tree)." <<<<<<<
Both experiments were done under the strictest of "objective controls". There was no way they could be influenced by the words used by the scientists or actions. They were replicated by both scientists the only variable was the beliefs of each scientist. The physical procedures and controls were identicle. It reminds me of similar experiments done in schools where teachers were told that certain pupils that had low IQs were high achievers and the real high achievers had low IQs. At the end of the term the exam results showed that the "low IQs were now scoring the highest marks while the "high IQs "were scoring the lowest marks and reality was being formed by the expectation of the teachers. On the wiseman programme there was also ESP type of experiments where isolated subjects were being "transmitted" images and information. Wiseman himself accepted that sommething was going on and conceded that belief systems may well determine the results of experiments. The programme then went on to quantum physics. But the previous experiments themselves were measurable by simple observation. |
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mindpunisher Inner circle 6132 Posts |
>>>>>>And as for mindpunishers post saying "If Mr Wiseman himself has stated that the data is depenant upon people who "decieve for a living" are telling the truth, then its hardly scientific is it?" - Yes another good point, but it doesn't totally invalidate the survey. Forensic psychologists face similar problems when they survey prison populations, but they still do it. They just treat their conclusions with caution.
Olly<<<<< It doesn't validate it either. Also because an "authority group" still carries out a certain survey knowing it may be flawed and with caution doesn't make it right either. It would make me more cautious about accepting the findings. Sometimes we just accept others findings without questioning just because they have a phd and I find that more dangerous than questioning. |
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Energizer Special user A well known funeral palour 582 Posts |
OK ... I'm beaten! I have no response.
You win this time mindpunisher ... but I'll be back. But seriously, good points, and very stimulating.
"We judge a book by its cover and read what we want between selected lines" - W. Axl Rose, circa 1992.
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mindpunisher Inner circle 6132 Posts |
It was a long time ago I saw the programme. Would love to see it again.
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