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jay leslie V.I.P. Southern California 9498 Posts |
I just want to know, If someone wouldn't ( would not) pay good money for a prop that's not made well, why would they make it themselves much worse then anything they could buy?
The second part of the question is: Why do people tell them that their project looks good when neither one of then would buy it, if they saw it sitting on a shelve?
Jay Leslie
www.TheHouseOfEnchantment.com |
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George Ledo Magic Café Columnist SF Bay Area 3042 Posts |
We tend to see what we want to see, not what's really there.
I went through it myself when I was a kid just starting out in magic. I built a number of props, mostly from descriptions in old books, and with absolutely no idea as to proportion, colors, decoration, construction, and so on. But to me they looked great. And if they looked great to me (after all, it was MAGIC EQUIPMENT and I had made it myself), then I figured it must look great to others too. The balloon finally burst when a local dealer told me one of my props (my second Square Circle) looked home-made. I didn't like his comment, and it hurt, but when I got home and looked at the SC again, I discovered he was right. Even today, thirty-some years later, I still figure he did me a favor.
That's our departed buddy Burt, aka The Great Burtini, doing his famous Cups and Mice routine
www.georgefledo.net Latest column: "Sorry about the photos in my posts here" |
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jay leslie V.I.P. Southern California 9498 Posts |
So that's the real question. How do you tell someone, nicely, that all the time and effort they put into making something is fine and dandy.... as long as they leave it at home.
Jay Leslie
www.TheHouseOfEnchantment.com |
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Michael Baker Eternal Order Near a river in the Midwest 11172 Posts |
Quote:
On 2008-06-11 18:57, jay leslie wrote: Personally, unless they ask my opinion, I don't offer it. Even when asked, I usually opt to keep my responses positive, or at the very least, constructive. It's their show and their props. This whole thread however, brings up an interesting point... The only thing that might (or should) worry the magician with a show full of gorgeous props is if he's not as good at entertaining as the guy with a bunch of homemade stuff. For better or worse, first impressions can change before the final curtain. Many times I have seen a true magician spin gold from straw. ~michael
~michael baker
The Magic Company |
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SpellbinderEntertainment Inner circle West Coast 3519 Posts |
Then there is the guy who DOES have beautiful, elegant, designer props...
But they have not seen a polish or a touch-up in decades, not even a hint of Windex or Pledge even. There is one "pro" I know who seems blind to the scuffs, scratches, dirt, and dullness of his props which forty years ago must have gleamed. Another rather famous guy who prides himself on his spiffy formal appearance, has seemingly not polished his shoes since the day he bought them, and they look like he took a hike to Tibet in them! It's not only the props... it's the UPKEEP and pride in them. More people need to "tell it how they see it" I get lonely sitting here in the depths of hell mostly alone... Magically, Walt |
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trey Loyal user 291 Posts |
My grandpa built the cabinets in my house in the 60's. But I rebuilt 90% of them and reused the fronts doors and trim. That way it is both our work. And doesn't look like the 60's anymore.
I agree that most people should not built their own stuff. But a lot of us out here can build. (And build we shall) Or rebuilt stuff that just does not work or "look" for our show. The people who do build their own props and tricks. And they look like _____ .(insert proper word here) They most likely will not work much. But then again I have seen some very good performers. Use junk props or just a brown paper sack. And kill them all! So long story short. It is, yet it is not all about the flashy props and costumes. There are a ton of factors to this crazy world we call show business. Trey |
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Tom Bartlett Special user Our southern border could use 763 Posts |
QUOTE:The people who do build their own props and tricks. And they look like _____ .(insert proper word here) They most likely will not work much. But then again I have seen some very good performers. Use junk props or just a brown paper sack. And kill them all!
Would the presentation be like this: I found this in the trash on the way here, it must have belonged to a wizard long ago, watch this. LOL
Our friends don't have to agree with me about everything and some that I hold very dear don't have to agree about anything, except where we are going to meet them for dinner.
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trey Loyal user 291 Posts |
Ha Ha Ha! that's good stuff!!
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Perry D Winkle Regular user 173 Posts |
I will say one thing here. There are some props that are not meant to be purchased. Let me ask a question, how many ventriloquists are running around with a cartoon duck under their arm right now? I think it's sad.
I do make certain props. I make my puppets using celluclay paperclay and other composites that I will not go into. And in my case, my father works in sculpture and I've had a great deal of training. My puppets are lightweight, have a texture similar to porcelain, and yet they are stronger than wood. I also make my own hats and ties. It gives me the freedom to choose the fabrics that I want, and craft something to a higher standard. My bow ties have an interleave fully stitched through the length of the tie. And my ties are custom tailored for my neck. My hats are of my own design and use my own custom patterns. They contain no glue, cardboard, or foam. Only the finest materials. And because I am assembling them on a high powered Free-Westinghouse ALB machine from the 50's that I've rebuilt and custom tuned for my purposes, I know that every stitch will hold for my lifetime. Not everyone can do this, but if I see someone try and fail, I'm going to use my experience to help them to the best of my ability (with constructive criticism that usually involves a solution and encouragement). I'm not going to tear them down for their efforts. They have had a lifetime of that, which is why they are most likely looking for a pat on the head. Someone asks you for your opinion, remember that they would only do that if they respect you and hold you in high regard. When you answer them, make sure that they didn't misplace their respect. |
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George Ledo Magic Café Columnist SF Bay Area 3042 Posts |
I've been noticing for many years that some people think they're in one field, when they're really in a different one.
Me, for instance (and I think it's really ironic), when I put together my cards-and-doves act back around 1970. My persona and presentation and so forth were getting really noticed, but by that point I was far more interested in the design and build than in the performance. I've noticed it ever since in my field, with theatrical designers who are more concerned with the technical stuff than with the design, with directors who put more time into the visual details than into the story and the characters, with actors who think they should be directing the show, and so on and on. We call them "frustrated designers," or "frustrated directors," or something similar. As much as I admire those few who can do it all, and do it well, I do think it's sad that so many others don't want to understand that you don't have to do it all. That it's okay to get specialists to help you out. And that the cost is not an expense, but an investment.
That's our departed buddy Burt, aka The Great Burtini, doing his famous Cups and Mice routine
www.georgefledo.net Latest column: "Sorry about the photos in my posts here" |
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Michael Baker Eternal Order Near a river in the Midwest 11172 Posts |
George's point makes a lot of sense. If someone is not capable of doing one or more of the multitude of things that are necessary for their show, we can only hope that they do understand their own limitations, and have a knowledge of the available resources there for their salvation from a less than glamorous outcome. At least so they don't forge ahead unarmed or unaware. Educating them to the possibilities is better than informing them that they do not meet someone else's "standards".
There are builders out there who can produce incredible work. There are others who's handicraft is good but not outstanding, and there are still others whose work is so good it boggles the mind. Whose job is it to draw the line on acceptability? What is useful and agreeable to one, does not necessarily parallel the mindset of others. I build apparatus that many people like. But, I have been building my own props for many, many years. I can say with no hesitation that some of my early stuff was pretty crude. In some cases, it was probably pure crap. But, that's part of the process of improvement. If, in those early days, when I was making and performing with apparatus that might be considered second rate, someone had come up to me, and told me my stuff was junk, I would have told them to go to Hell. I look at it like this... It is THEIR SHOW! Their success or failure may or may not be hinged on the quality of their props. Cream rises to the top, and bricks sink quickly. Let them do what they'll do with what they have. If they are good enough, crappy props will hardly slow them. If they suck, the best stuff in the world won't save them. Every day, we can find gorgeous props being sold... used. While certainly not the only reason, it should be obvious that there exist some people who simply cannot perform successfully, even given the best apparatus available. Conversely, there are some performers who can take a wrinkled paper bag and run circles around 98% of the magicians out there. Beyond sharing information for the purpose of enlightenment, we should not put ourselves in the position of becoming..... "Frustrated critics".
~michael baker
The Magic Company |
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