I'm coming forward to propose the idea of Bee decks having the capability of being used as edge readers, fresh out of the box. I'm doubting I'm the first to come up with this idea, but I have failed at contacting anyone who could give me any information. Because of this, I would like to present this as an open discussion.

I'm sure all of you have seen a shuffled deck of Bee's and noticed that the side of the deck has a very jumbled pattern of lines caused by the white of the back design. I have determined that the misalignment of the "edge" patterns are conveniently symmetrical on both sides of every card.

From my brief analysis, this design will sometimes present some obvious outliers (usually 3 to 5 cards). I have noticed that significantly more often than not, these outliers happen to be of the same suit.

My plan for the very near future is to purchase several Bee decks and build some equipment with software that will scan and analyze the patterns of the edge of the deck. For those curious, I have 10 years of engineering and programming under my belt.

Any information contributing to this subject matter would be greatly appreciated.

-G.

You don't need equipment, just your eye's, specially if you make one deck from several new decks...

No information to offer cause I really don't know anything about it. But I'm pretty sure you're correct when you say that others may have explored this idea.

I heard that if you open a pack of Bees and bevel them you will see that everything lines up. Supposedly, it's one way to tell at a glance if the cards have been fiddled around with. Presumably, when you start turning cards around, or moving them from one pack to another, they may tend to become noticeable.

Are the video equipment and software to be used just to analyze and discover a usable pattern on the edges of a Bee deck or are you thinking of a way to use the whole video equipment for some kind of live tracking during play?

Not necessarily true. Many bee decks I have opened were not symmetrical on both sides, in fact I cannot recall one which was. Perhaps manufacture is different in Canada than US, but these decks, after being shuffled around for a while, would be difficult to read using conventional edge marks, let alone relying on the cards themselves (unless it's for magical purposes).

It is a fact, BEEs are not symmetrical. And like Vandy pointed out, once they're turned or introduced into other decks the pattern gets misaligned.

much work has been done on edges, already

Bee's have been around since 1892....your thoughts on the back design have been shared by others for over 100 years. (see an old K.C. Card Co. catalog for example)

It's difficult to bring something new to the table with regards to the #92 Bee.

If you want to investigate "out of the box" edge readers...you might want to look into Texan Palmetto's.
Jeff Busby wrote a book called "The Secret of the Palmettos", all about using them as an edge reader right out of a factory sealed box.

With modern printing methods the printer can print in register with extreme accuracy but the cutting is not so cleaver.

The process is such that it is unlikely that you will find a card or two different than others in the same deck but rather, mainly due to bad cutting, we find decks that are different from each other. Which allows you to make decks of sorts. The flaw is the same in Bees as cards with borders but just looks different as they are cutting into the bee pattern rather than the border.

Gmatred,

As pointed out by others in this thread, the common failure of card manufacturers to cut their cards perfectly has been noted many times before and, as Steve Forte explained in the following excerpt from Mike Konik's 1995 article appearing in Cigar Aficionado, has been successfully exploited by blackjack players "playing the turn":



In hand-held games, players reversed the direction of the aces and ten-count cards 180 degrees when placing them under their cheques. During the course of shuffling, cutting and dealing the cards, the larger half-diamonds were readily distinguished from the smaller half-diamonds, thereby revealing the aces and ten-counts to the players.

As a countermeasure, casinos trained their dealers to “play the turn” themselves when shuffling and, when they did, the savvy players handed the cards back in the same direction as they were dealt. The dealer, unknowingly, then reversed the direction of the cards for the player.

To counter that move, some casinos instructed their dealers to break the decks down into sections, turning one section against the other, as they were stacked. Alert players studying the preocedures, however, reversed the order of some cards, left others intact, and still played the turn.

Casinos finally got wise and required that the decks used in all hand-held games be “chemmy-washed" or otherwise intermixed to prevent players from playing the turn.

I've created sorts from several decks of mis-cut cards over the years...just for magical effects don'cha know. Beveling the deck as Vandy suggests or "taking them to the movies" will instantly reveal the mismatched edges but, if you're using a single deck to play the turn, you can't be accused of anything unless they spread the cards, check the backs and reveal that all of the big diamonds facing in the same direction represent key cards.

Coincidence you say? I doubt they'll buy it.

Bret

Not long ago I was playing poker in a cash game in a casino and a deck of sorts were discovered.
The low cards from one deck had been taken and put with the high cads from another. The two decks differed very very slightly in color.

The excuss was some guys had been allowed to use the poker cards to play Kalooki -a two deck game - ealiar and that the two decks had got mixed by acident!

I doubt they'll buy it, I thought... but they did. They just changed the deck and carried on playing as if it was nothing.

Good one, Tommy!

There's one born every minute!

Maybe I'm missing something- but wouldn't it be easier AND more effective, in lieu of doing all this advanced measuring work, to simply EDGE MARK the cards?

Remember- we aren't talking about using the natural work already in the deck- we are talking about doing work in advance.

So, am I missing something?

“Remember- we aren't talking about using the natural work already in the deck.”

I thought we were! Maybe I am missing something.

I believe the original poster was talking about utilizing the cards as is out of the box, not manually marking the edges.

The former is legal while the latter isn't. You tell me which would be more desirable...

Alright, I think I missed something. Everyone gets one free ribbing.

Ben, consider yourself ribbed.

I once saw a magician combine that principle with some fingertip control for a beautiful trick (that's all I'll say about it.)

Jameson,

I assume you are NOT talking about what I showed you for two reasons:

1. The used work I PUT into the pack.
2. It wasn't beautiful

If you are free to share it, I wanna know what you saw!

I'll cut you some slack, Ben; the title of this thread is misleading. Reading factory miscuts isn't really "edge reading" in my view, it's no different than reading any marked card back.

Edge-work is put-into the sides of the cards, not the faces or backs, and include, among other methods, "nail-nicking"; "graying" the edges with a daub substitute; and lightening the edges with "sand work" (the type of work put-in only on the edge of key cards, not on the card backs near the edge as some workers employ). Edge work can be painfully obvious, or nearly indiscernible, depending on the skill of the user.

Bret

I have played with a marking idea which is like edge work: Putting a thin grey line on the "face" of card, right along the edge of the face not the sides.

Lets say we do it to the Aces. We can not see the mark on them when the deck is squared or face down. However if we hold the deck likewise to Walter Scott, sort of fanned a little, and we then tilt the deck, then we can see where about the Aces lie in the deck because then we can see a little bit of the faces. You need good eyes to see them quickly though so its not too cleaver.

Ben, I'm referring to our mutual acquaintance with the "unique" borderless cards.