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SeanScottMagic Veteran user 325 Posts |
After viewing David's Shadow Vision presentation again, this is what I believe may have transpired. In a previous thread I stated that the AGT producers conceivably may have asked him to "throw" the illusion so to speak. I do not know if this was the case, however I am now thinking they at least were wanting to exploit the opportunity. This following is just a little more information you may want to consider in the matter. Please forgive me if any of this has been previously stated or theorized.
I believe the video we all watched on AGT of David was his actual performance, with the exception of the head dropping on Shadow Vision. It is probably the strongest sell on the illusion (to the credit of Paul Haynes) and is strangely absent from the video. Whether David intentionally or accidentally botched a portion of the effect, the head drop is a strong part which helps validate the disection element. My impression is David performed that element and it was strategically edited out of his performance by the AGT producers to highlight the "mistake". Some of us would agree the ratings produced by a mistake will often trump a successful performance of anything. The fact we have shows dedicated to bloopers in tv, film, sports, etc. is some support of that. This theory would also somewhat explain David's damage control comments following the performance, particularly "the illusion went perfect", "I wanted to play with your minds", "that was part of the illusion", etc.. When confronted by the judges, David may have been thinking he at least performed the climax of the illusion (head drop) and was probably confident he could kind of hang his hat on that element. We all have played that "boy in the bubble" game at sometime to cover a mistake. He just possibly ended up doing it on network tv. Again this is just a theory and I can't say for absolute certain he intentionally took a fall or not. Not to insult, but there are some very outstanding stereotypical and comical attributes that lead me to the conclusion he makes a much better fall guy than American boy for AGT. It's also may be fair to say there are far more entertaining magicians that could represent magic on the show. So what was it about David Martin the producers wanted to run with??? His talent? Or his willingness to accomodate a request? These are just my opinions and I hope they are not taken in a condescending fashion. I hope David Martin did not expose Shadow Vision for personal gain. A mistake I can live with. Anyone agree or disagree? Thanks, Sean
http://WWW.THEARTOFSEANSCOTT.COM
AVAILABLE EFFECTS: ROAMING RISE RENDER MODOSU FACTORY LINE BANDARIZUMU KI MXL |
Magicque Special user 673 Posts |
" a mistake I can live with"???????????????????????????????????????????????
Sean, get real and think one second about you having Shadow Vision in your warehouse... Eric |
Magic Patrick Inner circle Minnesota 1591 Posts |
I think that David Martin is a Jack#$$. How does something like that happen to a professional magician? I haven't stopped hearing it from everyone about it. I simply say that it was an awesome illusion butchered by an ameture. Then he tried to lie about it to the judges. How do you spell stupid? He should be thrown off the show for lying alone. I am sure that he will get many shows from his exposure on this show. Did I say exposure? Why even have the masked magician anymore with all the David Martins in the world.
BYUDAD |
DanielSteep Inner circle 1409 Posts |
If he was asked to throw the illusion.. then he didn't tell the guy he had rented it from.
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RVH Magic Special user 877 Posts |
The facts:
This was filmed during the actual performance(otherwise the judges wouldn't be there and as far as I know there is no camera rehearsal during the auditions) He wasn't asked to throw the illusion! He rented the illusion and spend very little time on rehearsing it... |
The Mirror Images Inner circle Michigan/USA 1980 Posts |
This is not a first time a magician has made a mistake on live TV.
Lets think back to the great Blackstone super bowl show. I think that says enough.
Steven and Michael, The Mirror Images
The MOST Identical Twin Illusionist http://www.themirrorimages.com Check out our latest new effect - Liquid Steel NEW - MotoBox NEW - MotoMation NEW - Voyager |
videokideo Special user 895 Posts |
Sean... are you friends with this guy because it really seems you are really reaching for excuses to why its not his fault. And the excuses are straight out of the imagination with no facts to stand on....much like davids theory that the illusion went perfectly.
Fact is, the guy didn't rehearse! You can tell that in the presentation itself much less the illusion performance. |
Chezaday Inner circle Naperville, IL 1673 Posts |
David didn't throw this one, he does care about magic .. like we all do. I think he just got in over his head and he obviously was not prepared.
As the stories swirl .. he remains silent. I would hide under a rock .. Steve |
Irish_matt Loyal user St.Louis, MO 204 Posts |
Really... I can't see him being asked to throw the spot. He barely made it to that point and was told he was getting a second chance. He said he had a really big illusion. I would doubt that even he would deliberately mess the illusion just to get another few seconds on TV to look bad..To be told to throw it.. he would know he had no chance getting further in the show.
I think he just blew it.. period. rented illusion with no preparation. |
Christopher Starr Inner circle Heart of America 1850 Posts |
Sean:
I will agree with you about AGT highlighting the mistakes to maximize the faults of the poor performance. An interesting aspect hasn't been pointed out yet, that being the cut away shots of Shimshi and the Pendragons watching a "backstage" monitor of the performance. One might ask themselves was that live, during David's actual performance, or a playback after the fact? In any case, they were pointing out that which we, the TV audience, could see during the actual performance, namely the assistants fumbling during the course of the trick which also did not help sell the illusion. If one just looks at the performance you can plainly see pieces of the prop moving up, down and around that should not be visible. Had David not exposed the black art, this still would have damaged the overall presentation, as any viewer could plainly see that there was some monkey business going on inside the prop. Yes captain, the plane was already in series jeopardy before the crash occurred. There is no wiggling out of this: it was an under rehearsed routine which failed to work. Did AGT take advantage of the situation, by piecing together a performance segment that make it look even worse? Most definitely! It is what they do best. |
gulamerian Special user 581 Posts |
Blackstone was a pro. Performances were well thought out. I have yet to see that from David.
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Rainbow1234 New user 14 Posts |
For those that think that the spot on the show was not rehearsed. That is not the case. I have intimate knowledge of the illusion, the workings, the rehearsal process as I have had it in my show for many years. Even though things went wrong, the level of the performance as it was could not have been possilble without some serious time with the assistants. As stated in earlier postings this is without a doubt the toughest of all illusions to perform on the the two assistants. The magician part is piece of cake. The two girls were trained, but either there was a just a "flubb" that has happened to all of us when performing illusions, or not enough in front of audience time. Most performers get that anxious nervousness when performing a piece live for the first time. Thay may of been a factor in the flubb. I do not know David, but I can imagine the nevous pressure on him and the girls when doing this piece in front of the judges and on television.
Many pros, just watch Pauls Osborne world's worst magic, incuding Blackstone, The Pendragon, ect have had major screw ups on television. Over the years, even in my most rehearsed illusions, I can remember times when things went wrong. I am just glad no one was taping to put it on you tube. |
SeanScottMagic Veteran user 325 Posts |
Clarification. I am not in defense of David Martin. Don't know him, don't care. I will swear to that. If you reread my post, it should be apparent I am not discussing his inability to adequately rehearse. This discussion began out of wondering why I did not see the strongest part of the illusion (in my opinion) in the performance. This is a good example of how the AGT producers will take your best and indiscriminately delete it if they choose, making your inadequacies the feature. With that said, Did David Martin need more rehearsal? I will say yes if it was a genuine mistake, and is an insult to Paul Haynes & anyone that owns Shadow Vision.
As for throwing the illusion, do we recall how some of the other acts are possibly pre-arranged? Again, revisit the questions: What about David Martin got him to the finals? Why not someone else that was obviously more prepared? A lot about the act looked very thrown together, right? Costumes, choreography, & illusions for example. Maybe even looks like an 80's Criss Angel? I'm sorry, if David has been doing this stuff for 25 years then why does he look like an amateur? What does David Martin have going for him that puts him out of the realm of corruption? Remember Valentino? When I look at his website, most all the photos of David seem old. If David does not have a lot going for him, would AGT possibly offer something to motivate him? Exposure? Exposure of a very modern illusion? Was David Martin recruited by AGT? That's never happened before. I think this is just scratching the surface, but this is a good place to stop. If you know the things I'm talking about, you'll understand the point. I restated the above for those that seem to ignore the possibility. C'mon, don't look with your eyes.
http://WWW.THEARTOFSEANSCOTT.COM
AVAILABLE EFFECTS: ROAMING RISE RENDER MODOSU FACTORY LINE BANDARIZUMU KI MXL |
David Todd Inner circle 2328 Posts |
Sean,
I completely get what you have been trying to say. I don't think the AGT producers have any love for magicians and would in fact be happy to purposely expose magic or make magicians look bad if it served to increase the "drama" of their show . Their show has a need to create heroes and villains , geniuses and fools so that people have someone to latch on to , someone to root for (and someone to hiss and boo at ) . It's not what it seems. Not "reality" TV . I don't know if your theory is true, but I think it is plausible. The experience of Kevin James seems to point to the possibility that AGT producers are manipulating the acts to allow certain performers to fail dramatically , even when their previous performances were very strong. Is there any other explanation for Kevin James doing two VERY STRONG performances followed-up by a really weak performance of an over-used prop effect (the "Living Hand") ? |
Magicque Special user 673 Posts |
BYUDAD, There is too much exposure of our craft right now. You know, a lot of guys wrote how boring are Copperfield's shows nowadays...Now if you were in his shoes watching magic being destroyed by ***s like the Masked sissy and the kids full of acne problems explaining his act on another website how would you feel? He must be frustrated about all this!!! The guys breathes magic. Now, part time magicians think they know everything of magic when they have a TT...If I had a time travel machine, I would escape to Blackstone Sr. tonight and never come back! ;-)
Eric |
TaylorReed Special user Branson, MO 743 Posts |
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oZLNE65431s
This was on YouTube the day after it aired on AGT. I'm surprised no one has mentioned or seen it.
www.taylorreed.com
www.usedmagicillusions.com taylor@taylorreed.com (979)482-0714 See: The Magic and Comedy of Taylor Reed, Live in Branson, Mo |
Magic Patrick Inner circle Minnesota 1591 Posts |
Quote:
On 2008-08-15 21:43, Magicque wrote: Eric, Good idea. However, magic will go on. It always has. The birthday party magicians they will continue to be busy. People will still need to be entertained. People have short memories. I have performed the subtrunk atleast 100 times since it was exposed and everyone still loves it. The secret is in the performance not in how it is done. DC has done this and that is why he became so famous. He asked why the audience cares. They want to be entertained and believe in magic, they want if for only 60 minutes or so to forget their troubles and worries and visit the land of the impossible the land of illusion and magic. That is why we will survive this and many other exposure shows. Say hello to Harry for us all and also to Uncle Rico. BYUDAD |
pradell Special user Alaska 560 Posts |
Here's a link to the Blackstone show at the Orange Bowl. A series of unfortunate events.
http://www.poetv.com/video.php?vid=27804 :magicrabbit: |
Magicque Special user 673 Posts |
Thanks Byudad fro cheering me up a little bit!
One thing is sure, exposure shows hurt us. Don't you hate the sissies that expose magic and have the nerve of saying "I'm doing it to make magic evolve!"???!!! Have a nice day guys! Eric |
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