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Dynamike Eternal Order FullTimer 24148 Posts |
Quote:
On 2008-08-28 10:29, CaptainKid wrote: I don't mean to be funny but it seems like you burned yourself. Show one area where I mentioned we can go to prison for being in debt. I never mentioned that. Giving someone a check with NSF's is a fraud. Re-read my post, you'll see. Quote:
One usually cannot declare bankruptcy on bad checks - it is considered fraud, and you cannot bankrupt fraud. See, you just mentioned it, "usually". I person "can" declare bankrupt on a bad check, but not "usually". I know that because a female did declare bankrupt on the NSF check she gave me. She never appeared in small claims court. And re-read the last two sentences you put I quoted you on in this post about the attorneys. Quote:
As for bankruptcy, the DA has nothing to do with it, so talking to him about the bankruptcy is useless. I never mentioned going to a DA about bankruptcy. If you think I did, show where. Quote:
The media not cover it since your facts are not correct. Bankruptcy is done in a FEDERAL court, not a local or state court or criminal court. The people to talk to about bankruptcy is 1) their bankruptcy attorney, 2) the bankruptcy Trustee assigned to their case, 3) the District’s Bankruptcy Administrator, 4) The Federal Bankruptcy Judge. Truthfully, you will probably be spinning your wheels unless you can prove it is fraud. It seems like Jim has enough evidence including the other lawsuits he mentioned against the guy. They can show the news media together. When the DA sees it show up on tv it will make that person get off his/her butt. Quote:
Most attorneys who do not practice bankruptcy do not understand it. Most court officials who are not in a bankruptcy court don’t understand it. Well try getting your money the quickest way by going to small claims court before the person goes bankrupt. A credit collector can be calling and writing letters to that person with no response. I look at Jim doing the right thing. And Jim you can make three times your money back: http://ag.ca.gov/consumers/general/badchex.php http://dca.lacounty.gov/tsBadChecks.html Jiayi, I do not know the laws in Canada. Maybe it is best you go to the District Attorney (prosecutor). |
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jakeg Inner circle 1741 Posts |
When I've gotten a bad check, I go to the writer's bank and before presenting it for the 2nd time, make sure that the funds are in the account. If they are not, the bank will usually cooperate with you and call you when a deposit is made. You then have to get to the bank before the funds are drawn out to cover other debts. In the jurisdictions that I worked, you are only allowed to present a bad check twice.
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magicmarkdaniel Special user Bolton, England UK 831 Posts |
I simply will not accept cheques on the day of the show, cash only. I know too many friends who've been stung. If a client wishes to pay by cheque, which I give them the option to when taking the booking, I specify that it must be received by me no less than 14 days prior to the date of the engagement. All my bookings are confirmed in writing, they have my address if I ever didn't show (and I have a 100% appearance record in 10 years). Its worked for me all this time. I will accept cheques from schools, larger (mainly chain) businesses, councils etc, on an invoice basis and I've only once had a problem with late payment. I followed it up and the invoice had just been overlooked, the cheque arrived within 2 days of me making them aware of it. I phone clients a week prior to a booking to go over the details and make sure everything is in order, and I always reitterate the fee and the method of payment.
Mark
Mark Daniel
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JoshuaMichael New user 37 Posts |
Ask for a 50% deposit, tell them he bablance is due after the show. The deposit is non-refundable, if they cancel the show they lose the deposit, if you get a bad check for the balance at least you won't lose your entire fee.
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jiayi Veteran user Canada 313 Posts |
Thank you guys for the input. this is a nasty situation to be in. The family was so nice and friendly that day after my show, I can't believe they will do this.
I called them again today. The husband answered the phone and immediately told me that to call back in an hour when the wife is back. I did. and it was a voice mail. I told them to get back to me on the cheque, since I know where they live, I can just pick it up any time they want. I am going call again tomorrow. I am going to tell them that we will have to go to the small claim court to settle this if they don't want to talk to me. |
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Dynamike Eternal Order FullTimer 24148 Posts |
Let us know how it comes out, Jiayi.
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jiayi Veteran user Canada 313 Posts |
Thanks a lot Dynamike! for all of the advices and research.
I tried to call them twice again today, but only voice mail. So I sent the husband an email and told him that he either paid up or we will have to go to the court. I know it isn't a big amount, about $180, but I was disappointed how they handled this. If they can screw me this time and got away with it, they would screw another entertainer next year. Who knows how many people they have screwed before me. I am going to get to the bottom of this. I have looked up the procedure of filing a claim to the Small Claim Court here in Canada. I think I am going to take them to the court. Although I advertised Money Back Guarantee if the clients weren't happy with my show on my website, they were happy and the action of writing me a cheque after the show confirms it. So I don't think they can deny that. I have reference letters from other parents complimenting my show to prove it as well. I have his contact info and email communication, plus the bad cheque and the truth to back me up. I think I got a case. |
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SoCalPro Inner circle Southern California 1634 Posts |
It SHOULD be cut and dry. You have the bad check. Case closed.
Posted: Aug 29, 2008 2:36am Mike, Thanks for the links man. |
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KC Cameron Inner circle Raleigh, North Carolina 1944 Posts |
Quote:
I do not know about Canada, but in USA one clever way the criminal can get away with it is buy going bankrupt on all the NSF check. One time a female did it to me even though I won in small claims court. Dynamike, You say "if the criminal goes bankrupt on you I would get all the other plaintiffs together and bring it to the DA". I understand what you are saying now, but it does sound like you are talking about the "creditors" and just using the wrong word "plaintiffs". You need to be very careful here too, or because the court could sanction you for doing this BEFORE the bankruptcy is over - for thousands if the NSF check writer knows what he is doing. In fact you do mention the other plaintiffs could be part of the bankruptcy. [..USA one clever way the criminal can get away with it is buy going bankrupt on all the NSF check.] I know I said "usually" it is a legal hedge. You cannot go bankrupt on a NSF check. I said "usually" for the extreme case I have not heard about – it is a legal habit never to say never. So this "clever...criminal" is not so clever. It just doesn’t happen. So when you say that… Quote:
I know that because a female did declare bankrupt on the NSF check she gave me. She never appeared in small claims court. …you are only partially right. She did not have to show up in small claims court because all legal action stops in a bankruptcy (w/o permission from the bankruptcy court). You are wrong that she filed bankruptcy on the NSF. If you doubt me, look it up, it is a public document. You can probably take her to small claims court again, AFTER her bankruptcy is over. Still, this shows you don't have a good grasp of the bankruptcy laws. That’s ok, they are difficult, and I have yet to meet someone who doesn't work in the field who does have a good grasp of them. It is like expecting a lay person to know how to do a Pass. This is the problem, you could get someone in a lot of trouble with some of your advice. If someone pursued a person while their automatic stay is in affect, it could cost them thousands in sanctions – much more than what they lost in the NSF check. Also, you didn't realize you could peruse YOUR NSF writer after her bankruptcy. That advice could take money out of other's pockets too. So let's set the ego aside. ---BTW you can thank me for bringing up the fact you can probably collect on that NSF check. Skip’s advice was right on, he knows what he is talking about. Follow that. If a person files bankruptcy, be very careful or you could get burned far worse than the NSF check. If the amount is large, it would be wise to consult with a pro collector or attorney. Kerry Cameron Sheree Cameron, Esq. Cameron Law P.S. For all the internet lawyers out here. Be careful. Rarely a week goes by when I don't have to try to fix problems someone has gotten themselves into by taking internet legal advice. Laws change. Words have different meanings. There are different interpretations of the same law in different parts of the country. What seems like common sense often does not hold true. There is a reason law school is so hard, and it is only the begining. If it is serious, get an attorney. No, it should not be so complicated, but it is - often intentionally so. |
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todd75 Inner circle 1277 Posts |
Easy Solution= DON'T TAKE CHECKS FROM PRIVATE PARTY CLIENTS- EVER!
I take credit cards and MOST people use this method. When I call to confirm 2 days before the party, I ask them if they want to put the balance on the card. If they say YES, I run the card through right away. If they say they would rather pay me at the show I remind them that it needs to be cash or money order and that I don't accept personal checks. I also make sure that they are aware of my payment policy after they have committed to the show. Last, I mention at the bottom of the confirmation letter that the balance is due in cash, money order or by credit card and that no checks please. Problem solved! |
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zimsalabim Special user Orlando Floirda USA 520 Posts |
I NEVER accept a check for a private party client it is cash or it has already been paid for via credit card. I usually take a credit card for deposit and then when they pay cash I drop that. I have never had a problem with this situation. with those rules OK DITTO THE ABOVE POST I didn't see it till I finished this.
Z
Joe Zimmer
"The Second Greatest Magician in the World" Who is the Greatest? Everybody else! Borrowed with respect from the late Great Eddie Fechter Owner of the Forks Hotel Zimsalabim Orlando Florida |
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Billy Whizz Special user Plymouth, UK 576 Posts |
My contract also says 'The balance to be paid in cash on the day of performance'.
Here's a question for you . . . . . Like me you insist on cash, but what do you do if on the day they offer a cheque? You might ask for cash but they don't have any with them, what else can you do but accept the cheque and hope for the best? I would guess many have been in this situation before. I have, but thankfully, the cheques have always been OK. Over the years, I've had a few deposit cheques bounce, but were OK when re-presented. |
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zimsalabim Special user Orlando Floirda USA 520 Posts |
Well that is a very good question. I learned from doing the job for years with Titanic on events we always take a credit card as deposit. Soooo if they do not have cash on the day of I WILL charge the credit card. With that I have never had the situation where they did not have cash on the day of. It has worked for me so far never had anyone have a problem with it. If they don't have a credit card and that does happen from time to time I have had THEM offer to pay cash before the day of the event by money order, seems that my clients realise what the situation before I need to say anyhing. My wording in my contract is pretty straight forward on this issue. SO far no problems but I always wait for the first
JOE Z
Joe Zimmer
"The Second Greatest Magician in the World" Who is the Greatest? Everybody else! Borrowed with respect from the late Great Eddie Fechter Owner of the Forks Hotel Zimsalabim Orlando Florida |
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Donald Dunphy Inner circle Victoria, BC, Canada 7563 Posts |
Hi Billy -
I also have a cash policy for birthday shows. Another way to prevent the cheque instead of cash mixup, is to call and confirm show details a couple of days before the show. When I do that, I also remind them that payment is due in cash (no cheques), at the performance. This is in addition to putting those terms in the paperwork, and in addition to discussing those terms when they book the show. I think I've only had it not work out once. And it was because I talked with one parent to confirm the show, and not the other. And the reminder about cash only didn't get passed on from one parent to the other. So, I reluctantly took a cheque and it still worked out. They apologized for not having cash, as we had agreed to. - Donald
Donald Dunphy is a Victoria Magician, British Columbia, Canada.
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magicone Veteran user Doylestown, PA 351 Posts |
Well, received another boucnced check from a client. This time the bank is a credit union and not local to me so it's going to be a pain to collect. The client isn't responding to my email yet (3 days now) next will be to call her on the phone.
I will be changing my policy to one I believe I read on this thread from now on. I usually ask my clients for a $50 deposit to hold the day. This is sent in the mail from them to me with their contract. Going forward the contract will state they can pay any amount of the deposit (minimum $50) in the form of a check but the balance has to be paid in cash. So if they want to just pay the $50 in the check then the balance will have to be in cash. If they can't be bothered to have cash on the day of the party then they can send the full amount in the form of a check. In this way I have a guarantee either way that I get my funds. If the deposit check bounces then I have time to address it and they can pay in full on the day of the show. There will be no opportunity to bounce a final payment check as there will not be one to bounce thanks for all the information and thoughts! A |
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Dynamike Eternal Order FullTimer 24148 Posts |
Quote:
On 2008-09-14 08:42, magicone wrote: I never thought of that. It should be a good idea. I had only a few problems with checks over 17 years of my business, so I am still doing it nomally. And I should tell them a higher price if a check is paid on the day of performance. For example: I can tell them if the balance is paid by cash, the balance is $150. If the balance is paid by check, it will be $170. |
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