Just my two cents....but we have to remember that these are young people! We didn't all start out performing our "own" routines in the garage or basement. No...we watched and "borrowed" from our magic idols....we pretended to be Mark Wilson or Doug Henning or David Copperfield! If these young people are "borrowing" (and I don't think they are doing it knowingly) from the Pendragons...good for them! Now.....where they take it and make it their own...that is what we want to see! (and in a few years when they become famous, you know that some young magician will "borrow" a move from them!)

A Sub Trunk is a Sub Trunk is a Sub Trunk. (except for my version that uses a coffin in a grave. lol) everyone does it about the the same way. some do it faster than others, some use the curtain diferently than others. some use no curtain at all. it still the same trick.

fighting over this is no different than getting mad at someone using silver engraved Sherwood cups because Vernon had cups like that 1st (in fact how many magicians do Vernon's C&B routine all over the world?)

the Pendragons's sub trunk is a thing of beauty. most people want to be like them because they do it so well, but speed isn't everything

I get tired of people always talking about the fast switch all the time. I wish people would listin to Denny's interview on the magic lantern episode 9 & 10. his thoughts on the sub trunk are some of the best I've ever heard.

Houdini made it look like a miricle and it took a full 3 seconds for the switch. to quote Denny "nothing is as fast to a layman as 1, 2, 3. it makes no difference."

IMO the trick is supposed to seem like almost an escape. the person is handcuffed, put inside a heavy bag, which is sealed. then put into a trunk that is locked and sometimes strapped shut. just getting out should look impossible. the switch should be a surprise to the audience. I agree with Denny. its almost like we've all forgotten what the effect of the trick is supposed to be

Lance: Exactly!!! That is what I am talking about. Force yourself to look past the obvious with any illusion presentation. Look outwardly and away from magic for other ideas. No one says it has to be done the way everyone else is douing it. There are others ways to do it.

Why does it need to be performed so fast? There is no reason. that is just it. It doesn't have to be. What happens is that magicians tend to only see with blinders on. We figure the only way to do it better or different is to take what is already being done and do it faster. Instead we should be thinking how can we do it differently to make it something completely fresh.

Just the notion of asking yourself ... what if I did it slowly?... opens up a lot of neat and interesting ideas. Now you have created a path to go down that could open up so many different ideas to take the essence of the effect in different directions completely.

Lance brings up some great creative thought here. The notion of questioning things and allowing your mind to ask questions about an effect of an illusion and seeing what can come from it.

JustMatt: Thanks for chiming in here. I also understand these are young people. I have taught young magicians ages 7-17 for over 15 years now both locally and nationally as part of the SYM program. It is the young people that we need to touch base with on this concept of creativity first and foremost. Young magicians have amazingly creative minds. The problem is we as teachers feel that they have to learn to do it the old way first before exploring something new. I feel the opposite should be happening.

These young magicians have amazingly creative minds. So much so that often times I feel the young magicians in contests at conventions are far far more creative then the adults. Why hinder their progress by forcing them into the same old ways? I say allow them to flourish by giving them that luxury of creativity. Push their creative thinking early on so that they do not get caught up in the same problems and mistakes we get caught in as adults. When I started to do this, I was simply amazed at what the kids came up with.

Nowadays, I bring in an illusion, show them the basic handling and I leave the routining up to them. On purpose I do not tell them how others have done it. By doing so, I have seen these kids come up with amazingly fresh ideas because they are not drawn into one way thinking.

Kyle

Kyle, you said it best:

I feel with the advent of the Internet more young people are flocking to magic and that’s great but there getting there training from the watching all those great Youtube videos.

Before the Internet, the youth had to seek out magic at magic clubs or found older/ wiser magicians who showed them the way. For me it was a guy by the name of Brett Stevens and from the get go he told me to be unique, be different and never copy others work. I would be lying to say I never ripped off another magician, but the one time I did Brett told me he would not work with me till I stopped doing that routine. That day I trashed it all and never looked back.

Lance

Absolutely correct Lance. The young magicians are the future stars of tomorrow. This is where we can make a difference by allowing them to be creative and not hindering this creative spirit that they alreayd have. what happens is too many of us tell them that is not how it is done and it needs to be perfoprmed like so. by doing this, we are already hindering their creative progress.

When I teach and lecture I try my best to only show them the techniques and skills needed for any effect and I strive not to influence them in regards to how to routine it. That is where I allow them to work it out. They always do and some of what they create is simply brilliant thinking because it has not been hindered.

You are right in YouTube and street magic in general. I have nothing against it because it is a way that more kids are getting involved in magic. The one factor I have to do is to train them though in different ways of thinking about their magic.

they tend to have mad skills but that is all they have. It is presented as a show of skill only with lack of presentation or entertainment value. This is where I spend a lot of my time training them on how to use what they know to create entertainment experiences.

Kyle

They have just built a shadow box have a look - http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=UmIqZ4bgWi8

Watched the shadow box, read this guys:
1. You need to get the box off of the ground in my opinion. Maybe mount the shadow box on another table.
2. The sword needs to look more like a real sword. It still doesn't quite make sense to have a sword there, eventhough a vertical post is needed. Who are you stabbing?
3. The effect needs to be done much, much faster in my opinion. Not enough of an ending to do it that slow.
4. Don't crouch in front of the box, you are blocking the audience view. Be to the side.
5. Why are you kissing at the end? At least, that's what it is looking like right now.

I posted this because of your comment earlier on requesting suggestions for sub-trunk. Hope it is alright if I make these suggestions.

Best Regards,
Sean

Siegfried said it best..When I was around 12 yrs old Siegfried told me to try to be original it my performance, to come up with a new style or a new take on a classic, but what ever you do , don't copy.. Even if you are not that good for a while it is still better in the end.
Taylor

I'm befuddled by the "Cloth Handling" comments. Are we taking about the drape or the way that Char's thread rides up her subtrunk? I know an assistant makes for good misdirection, but do you really need that much distraction?

Maybe I missed this too over time, but what is the "Special" handling of the cloth?

Hey Jake, and everybody else,
sorry for jumping right to reply without reading every single comment here, but I gotta chime in... The Pendragons foulard switch is the dropping it, whipping it away move. Copperfield uses it in his version of Metamorphosis (he gives the Pendragons credit for the foulard switch).

This foulard switch is not the Pendragons.

All it is, is the standard up/drop movement that everyone else uses with a typical hoop - cloth. The difference? The hoop these kids have is only a half-hoop.

That said... kids... if you're a dude... stop trying to do Char's leg dancy-stretch out move thingies. You're gonna look back at this in a few years and cringe.

And I think I've seen that trunk somewhere before. Is it a Tilford?

So in theory, if I was to just drop my underwear to my ankles a swooshed them into the hamper as I get into the shower, I could actually copyright that?

Dropping a curtain and swooshing it away? I've seen others do it, long before Pendragons.

LOL, my lord what has the world come too, copyrighting swooshing, LOL.

Yes. Just don't do Charlotte's leg dancy-stretch-out-move-pose-thingies as you swoosh away the underwear. We will all see it and recognize it as the Pendragons' work.