Danny, I was referring to the "you can't hide behind 'he didn't do the sales letter'" when I mentioned not wanting to argue. It just came across a bit as a "I'm happy you liked it, BUT ... " sort of thing to me. And if you didn't mean it that way, all's good, we're all friends and all that good stuff.

MP, you're right that the long form sales letters outperform most other types of sales letters. Like I said, they're used because they work. I personally don't care for them and I skim them to get the salient points of their pitch, and to get to the bottom line as fast as possible. But they do work for a lot of people.

What else works and is gaining popularity is video combined with a short form sales letter. If any of you watched The Next Internet Millionaire a while back, Charles Trippy's sales page at the end, as the last challenge, is a good example of that.

And if you didn't watch it, it's got a video that has the whole sales pitch in it and below it is a very short pitch in written format. It worked quite well, and he came close to winning the show with it.

And I'm in danger of trying to turn this into a discussion of marketing techniques in general, lol. So I'll stop here and just say that like Danny said, if the end user is happy, that's all that matters in the long run.

Joshua

Well a discussion on marketing wouldn't be a bad thing since it is hypnotic by nature. These long letters are designed for styles of readers including the skimmers. So in actual fact they work with you to.

The video is just the same info presented as a video rather than letter.

Danny just likes an argument now and again... Hes happy let him be.

I was just browsing the Café after a long absence, saw this thread, and had to speak up ... not to defend Igor or Cliff, but to make you aware of what great resources they provide once you get past the sales copy!

I've been a member of Igor's Private Hypnosis Club from the beginning, and I just returned a week ago from a week-long Conversational Hypnotherapy class with him in Palm Springs. The experience gave me experiential insights that have completely changed my idea of what hypnosis is, how to "do" it, and what can be done with it. There were about 100 of us there, and everyone (from experienced professional hypnotherapists, to doctors, to sales people, to writers, to folks just intersted in hypnosis) were blown away by what we learned ... about hypnosis and about ourselves and what we're capable of. (Richard, many folks spoke VERY highly of you and your material too!)

Igor is brilliant: a gifted teacher, an eloquent speaker, a talented hypnotist/hypnotherapist, and an all-around nice guy. Igor's business partner Cliff was there too, and while I can't speak for him, I know that he's been quite successful doing internet marketing for a long while. In some sense it's just a numbers game. You keep doing what works, because it works. At the class, a bunch of us were discussing our own dislike of these letters, and the BIG disconnect between that approach and what you find when you actually get to know Igor and what he teaches. Then we realized that the letters all got US there, so.... Whether we bit because of the copy or in spite of it, I'm not sure.

Regardless, my point here is a simple one, and it's not about the copy. If you have a serious interest in hypnosis beyond just impressing people with instant inductions and cool stage hypnosis tricks, I can't reccommend Igor's material highly enough. If you're interested in learning the more subtle conversational aspects of this deep art and are prepared to spend years and years immersed in it, look beyond the hype ... and slowly wade in to the shallow end of the pool. By the time you get to the deep end you'll be able to swim.

If this resonates with you, my advice is to start with the more basic course (www.secretsofhypnosisrevealed.com), then move on to the Conversational Hypnosis course (www.conversational-hypnosis.com). The Private Hypnosis Club (www.privatehypnosisclub.com) gives members a new Master Class on a specialized subject every month, and includes 4+ hours of audio plus written material on all sorts of subjects.

Really really good stuff, all of it.

Mike

I came across this add a while back after browsing this section of the forum a few weeks back. I don't know much about hypnosis but I do find it interesting. I mostly dabble with cards and am good enough to get a few smiles at bars. I didn't really think much of the add until I read this post today.

I can see how the add would offend many people. I don't think many magicians like their art to be made to look like some sort of dark witch craft. I can, however see why the add was posted in this way.

When trying to sell something (and make money with it) you usually try to determine who is most likely going to buy your product. Then you target that market. In this case the product is covert hypnosis. Who is more likely to buy this product? A hypnotist who openly tells people he is going to hypnotize them? Or a business man who's purpose is to convince people to buy something that they may or may not actually want or need to buy?

My guess is Cliff is more of a business man than a hypnotist and believes that the latter is more likely. Although unfair and maybe sometimes unethical, there are many (notice I say many and not all) businessmen, and especially salesmen that will do anything to make a sale. I believe this advertisement would be quite appealing to them.

I have more thoughts on this but I think I will stop. A keyboard and an opinion are all I need to keep me up until dawn.

With several notable exceptions, most of these "courses" are simply selling dreams. The mark up on dreams is very very high.

Magic shops do not sell tricks, they sell dreams. Heck you see the "get rich quick" type of web pages, and all the nonsense. People have dreams of being a great this or famous that and they sell you a way to try to accomplish it. It has been the way of the world for a long time.

The ad copy here plays right into selling dreams. Who would NOT want all the things promised?

All marketing sells dreams. That the point who wants to spend hours learning how to talk funny? Which is what hypnosis is really. No one. They want whatevr that means to them individually.

This marketing works across the board not just with hypnosis but big small business everybody. And is much more successful than developing brand awareness etc.

It just works. It is hypnosis on paper or on the screen. As hypnotists we should be interested in studying it and learning from it. There are some incredibly clever marketing people out there.

I have Igor's Conversational Hypnosis set and it is AWESOME!

The guy really knows his stuff. I can understand how you may be trying to see through the junk peddling sales pitch, but this is an exception. This stuff is the real deal. Great solid information and how to apply it in everyday life. I really enjoyed it and learned a lot from it.

The very fact there is a thread about it tells you the marketing works.

I would suggest that if you are offended by the ad, you're not the target market. Similarly, if you like to use Windows-based computers, you may be offended by the "I'm a Mac and I'm a PC" ad. You're not the target market. Or if you like to use Macintosh computers, you may not like the 'Here's $1500 go get a laptop" ad.

More importantly, however, is mindpunisher's comment. It doesn't matter how insipid, distasteful, or offended you are by an ad. If it sticks in your mind, it is effective.

No. Contrary to popularly spouted nonsense by success peddlers that is not the case.

IF YOU BUY SOMETHING it is effective.

A number of posters on here have bought it already and raving about it. Its quite possible more sales will be made from that.

SO IT IS EFFECTIVE. There are even posters who hated the ad but ended up not only buying the tapes but also going on the live seminar which was busy.

SO THAT IS EFFECTIVE.

THE FACT ITS MADE ITS WAY ON TO A SPECIALIST FORUM AND BEING PRAISED BY THOSE THAT ACTUALLY BOUGHT THE PRODUCT DESPITE HATING THE AD....THAT IS EFFECTIVE.

This is just a TINY representation of those that will respond to this ad.

Its quite common for this style of marketing to be knocked by those that actually respond to it.

This is off topic. But I'm a PC user and I think those commercials are hilarious. :-D

I would like to clarify that I bought the Conversational Hypnosis set without ever seeing the ad. I believe I got it at an auction or some sale event.

If I were in the market for the set I would've bought it from the ad.