Nice chops but I fell asleep watching it.

There is a fellow I know who can do almost every move that has been written up for the cups and balls. The problem is that he insists on doing all of them.

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ.

It has been said that the way to carve an elephant from a big piece of stone is to look at the stone, then take a chisel and a hammer and chip away everything that doesn't look like an elephant.

The way to have a magical, entertaining cups and balls routine is to take a cups and balls routine and chip away everything that doesn't look magical and entertaining.

Bill, when I was about 16 I tried that very thing. I seriously looked at my C&B routine and started to chip away everything that didn't look magical or entertaining. Before long I had no routine. One of the best lessons I ever learned. My next C&B routine was considerably better.

Not many people can pull off a really embellished style well. One notable exception from the music world was Jose Melis, the Cuban pianist, who worked for Jack Paar. He never played fewer than 25 notes where one would suffice.

Ladies and gentlemen, I have suffered for my art. Now it's your turn.

or...

Thanks folks! I know a million of them. I shall now tell them in the order I learned them.



Curt

For my first origami figure...a red crane.

For my second origami figure ... a green crane.

For my third origami figure ... (sound of gunshot!)

APPLAUSE!

But still.... he is good at what he does.
It's a prime example of "A magic club routine".

His routine sufferes because...
It showcases moves and methods.

Was there a beginning , a middle, an end to this routine ?
Any moments of comic releif? Did he ever get it wrong?
Did he lose a ball and find it somewhere else? Any tension?
Drama?


He's great! He needs to take this routine out on the street
and do it for passersby. In two years, he'll have a good routine.
What's left of it.

This forum is full of magic tricks that get wonderful praise only because:

1. wow. nice chops.
2. wow. you fooled me completely with a move I already knew.
3. wow. the patter matched the moves perfectly.
4. wow. I didn't even know you were using a TT until the end.
5. wow. PK ring. great idea.

None of those are reasons why a layman will like a routine.

Let's give the man praise because he deserves it. But let's also notice that the routine, from an entertainment perspective, which is really the only perspective an audience cares about, is really far from ready.

Go ahead and do that routine at the magic club. But then take it out into the world and learn how to make it entertaining.

I started this original thread, and only meant to point out that I found some of the moves interesting, not that I found the routine entertaining. It is boring for all the reasons mentioned, but having read numerous books and manuscripts on C&B and seen video by Ammar, Bob White, Mendoza, Gazzo, Rafael Benatar, Charlie Miller, Johnny Thompson, Johnny Paul, and a lot of others, I'm always amazed to see a move I've never encountered. Apparently, his steals and the revelation where the ball drops from the stacked cups aren't original to him, but they're new to me. It's possible to learn something even from a boring routine, not in order to copy the routine, but to find something that you can use and improve on to make your own magic better.

As a magician you'd be silly to completely discount an effect just because of its presentation. For example, you might hear patter like "In front of each bowl I shall place three balls. In front of Bowl 3--these red balls. In front of Bowl 2--three white balls. In front of Bowl 1--three blue ones" and say, 'wow that's so boring, what a dumb trick.' Of course, I just typed that from Tarbell, and while the patter might stink there's still plenty to learn from the trick.

Dave:

I agree completely.

Again, it's basically a matter of chipping away the parts that don't look mystifying or entertaining.

***then take a chisel and a hammer and chip away everything that doesn't look like an elephant.***

EXCELLENT analogy!

The technique is flawless and the routine is the definitive demonstration that C&Bs is not about technique.

The lesson is that it's too long, too monotone

What it teaches is that even if a flawless technique is necessary, it is definitely not sufficient.

:applause:
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:applause:
:applause:
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:applause:

Agreed!!!!! best post of the year!!!!!

At first I did not understand what was meant by "Zero Entertainment," but by the time I got to Lawrence O's post about being too long, too Monotone I now have a better understanding of what C&B is all about. Just before I watched that Youtube video, I had watched Don Alan's chop cup routine which I believe shows that a short quick routine can have a better magical effect.

This thread has taught me a lot, thanks to everyone involved with C&Bs.

Bill, I love the clapping hands, it makes me laugh.

Have fun folks!
Madkiki