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Potty the Pirate Inner circle 4632 Posts |
Quote:
On 2009-04-27 10:59, Powermagic wrote: ....I think most of us do realise that, it's how we disarm the situation. But it does surprise me that you guys seem nervous of the kids chanting. IF you're that lucky, then you should WORK WITH IT! If the kids are chanting, you have them right where you want them. WHY IS IT A PROBLEM? Whenever I have kids chanting (the most common one is "Cheater!, Cheater!"), I know the adults are looking on speechless. The chanting puts the whole show up a gear, creates a new rhythm and excitement, and increases the energy flow between performer and audience. The idea of stifling these reactions, to me, is beyond absurd! Potty |
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TRUMPETMAN Special user Naples, FL 705 Posts |
You nailed this, Potty. The day the kids stop making noise at my shows is the day I will have failed as a performer. I want them to challenge me ! I want them to interact. The only trick is guiding them down the path so they think they are getting the better of me ! Little do they know....
:) Mark
Mark Pettey
Naples, FL facebook.com/robbietheringmaster |
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harris Inner circle Harris Deutsch 8812 Posts |
Chanting (with or without drum,harmonica or beatboxing back up) can be a wonderful thing.
Of course so can moments that you can cut the silence from OH Wow to touching emotional(even sadness) are just as nice. Harris still 2 old to know everything....
Harris Deutsch aka dr laugh
drlaugh4u@gmail.com music, magic and marvelous toys http://magician.org/member/drlaugh4u |
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TonyB2009 Inner circle 5006 Posts |
Chanting can be good in a show - it lets the booker know (from the noise level) that you are going down very well. But if the chant gets out of control it can be a problem. What I do is I hold my hands up in a placatory manner, and pause. After a few moments the chant dies down, and I can continue.
In the early days my puppet occasionally got the reaction: "It's a puppet." Now that is rare, because he has a fully developed character, and they are focusing on him as a personality. And also I introduce him gently, so they are prepared when he makes his entrance. But when a kid does throw in the comment, the puppet will look at him and say: "I'm not a puppy. I'm fully grown." Sometimes he will make some remarks about the kid: "You're a monkey." This usually works. I love the line: Yes, but he's a real puppet. Pure genius. Here is a great line for adults doing a vent routine. "Last night there were so many complaints about my act. I was so good people thought I was using a tape. So tonight I will let you see my lips move." After that no one cares about lip control, because you have confronted it head on.
Check out Tony's new thriller Dead or Alive http://www.amazon.co.uk/Alive-Varrick-Bo......n+carson
http://www.PartyMagic.ie |
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thescienceworks New user 69 Posts |
Sorry, Potty, but I have never had great experiences with chanting. There is a LOT of noise in my shows, always positive and always energetic, but I find that chanting just ratchets the kids up in a way that is almost always impossible to shift gears from. Also, to me, it seems like if they are chanting and you do what they want (which is usually my plan...I get them to ask me to do exactly what I was going to do in the first place) you are giving them to much power and control. Chanting always seems to snowball, in my opinion. Maybe it is my educators background coming through...
-Steve |
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themagiciansapprentice Inner circle Essex, UK 1381 Posts |
On Friday, in Church, we did a segment where we introduced the props as puppets and gave some for a few kids to try out. Then I got out and used Biscuit (cheap version of the bunny in hat puppet.) The congregation were amazed at how I could manipulate it compared to the children. Many aftewards thought I was holding a real rabbit that responded to the Chaplain's requests to sulk, sing and dance.
100+ others knew these weren't real animals, but enjoyed the entertainment.
Have wand will travel! Performing children's magic in the UK for Winter 2014 and Spring 2015.
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harris Inner circle Harris Deutsch 8812 Posts |
I took an idea from Wayland Flowers(of course I cleaned it up)
about the audience being so smart they can tell that I move my lips when Dan(de Lion) is talking. People in the past have commented that they like that transition into true vent.(later in the program) Harris now that I don't know everything, I seem to do a bit better....
Harris Deutsch aka dr laugh
drlaugh4u@gmail.com music, magic and marvelous toys http://magician.org/member/drlaugh4u |
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danfreed Inner circle West Chester PA 1354 Posts |
This is a good thread, anyone else have ideas? I've been doing a little bit of vent work since this summer (using cut animal puppets), and I'm really liking it most of the time, and I'm ramping it up now. Most people say to head the problem (it's a puppet, etc) off before it starts by stating that it's a puppet before you start, and to develop a really good character and routine, and that should prevent most issues. My vent work usually goes over well, but since I'm new to it, and still experimenting with routines and the characters, I'm inconsistent. At a party on saturday I had a 5 year old who just would not stop saying "it's a puppet", and I kept telling him he was right, "he gets upset when people call him a puppet", etc, but he couldn't help himself. Maybe my routine was lacking and that was part of the issue. Could it also be the type of puppet used, or the order of the puppets used (if using more than one)? Could it be affected by when during my magic act I bring out the puppet? How is the age of the kids a factor? In other words, what should I expect from different age groups in terms of reactions to the puppetry/vent?
Dan Freed
AKA The Amazing Spaghetti https://www.magiciandanfreed.com/birthday-party-magician-for-kids http://thecaricatureartist.com http://danieljayfreed.com |
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Dynamike Eternal Order FullTimer 24148 Posts |
I started a few years ago. I learned form David Ginn's lecture to whisper loudly as I cover up the puppet's ears, "Yes, he's a puppet, but he does not know it." It has been working fine for me. I think the boy you were taking about comes once out of dozens of gigs.
Maybe you want to try telling the kid if it happens again, "'Charlie' will do a magic trick for you if you will be very quiet." When you are done tell the kid your puppet's magic trick is he will vanish. Put your puppet away. |
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cwbny Loyal user 211 Posts |
I find puppets can get away with saying anything, so let them do the dirty work. I've often had kids shout "your mouth is moving" (which it was blatantly, I'm not a ventriloquist at all). So my puppet just replied, "Of course his mouth is moving. I'm a puppet. Duh!" If the puppet comes right out and agrees, the kids are proven correct (empowerment) and there's nothing left to argue about.
I've never gotten "it's a puppet!" But I'm sure the puppet would just reply for me. "I better be a puppet. Otherwise, I have no idea why there's a hand in my face." |
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0pus Inner circle New Jersey 1739 Posts |
After reading this thread I think it might be a very funny routine where the vent tries to convince the puppet that he is, in fact, a puppet. The puppet continually denies that he is. The vent points out various things (like the puppet cannot talk unless the vent is moving his lips, there's a hand in his back, etc.). The puppet denies these facts (much like the denials that the bird is dead in the Monty Python "Dead Parrot" sketch).
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cwbny Loyal user 211 Posts |
That's funny, Opus. Love that
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Robin4Kids Veteran user Lower Alabama 396 Posts |
I have been "called out" during my rabbit in the hat routine a number of times and have been successful in using several of the methods and responses that have been previously mentioned in this thread. The most amusing thing to me is that after addressing the kid that shouted "It's a puppet!" and continuing the routine, they all (including the kid that called me out) seem to get into it as if the rabbit was real and being tattletales when I'm doing a "look-no-see" move. It's as if they have all forgotten that it's a puppet and treat it as if it is real....well, not even real, since a real rabbit couldn't do those things! Gotta love them kids!!!
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harris Inner circle Harris Deutsch 8812 Posts |
Over the last 10 years I have been blessed to do puppet workshops quarterly for the same drama teacher
I do use a bit where I tell Nigel he is an example of a ventriloquist puppet. A what, Nigel asks. A puppet I said. How RUDE, Nigel replies. I am not a puppet. I am a manikin American Last line was used years ago and not too regular these days.
Harris Deutsch aka dr laugh
drlaugh4u@gmail.com music, magic and marvelous toys http://magician.org/member/drlaugh4u |
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A Show By Joe Elite user Long Island 408 Posts |
I think Trumpetman said it best on the first page. I always use Rocky the Raccoon, and when the kids yell "it's a puppet", I awalys say," I know, but HE thinks he's real. I have been trying to tell him for years, but he won't listen". That's when I say to him, It's that right Rocky? And I flick his nose so he will look at me, and nod. The kids want to have fun with it, and be entertained.
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Red Shadow Inner circle 1788 Posts |
Puppets
I stopped having this problem a long time ago. How? 1. The puppets I choose had big mouths. In magic, we have a saying: the big movement covers the little movement. The same philosophy applies to puppets. Pick an animal or character with a big mouth and they will be looking at that and not the tiny movements your mouth makes. 2. The characters are interesting from the second they appear on stage. While my monkey may be interesting in its own right, I add to that by dressing it in a bow-tie. It use to wear a pink coat. My crocodile doesn't need props for that extra shock factor because of the routine I'm doing. But the point is, the children's attention is immediately focused on this 'unusual' aspect of the puppets attire, and therefore they are not thinking about the fact that its a puppet. So if you put a pacifier around its neck, it will direct their attention towards it. 3. The very first line from the puppet is vital. It has to be interactive with the audience, loud and shocking. This can simply be the word 'hello' if said in such a manor that the audience were not expecting it and it makes them laugh. When they are laughing, they are not caring about the fact that its a puppet. 4. Make the routine funny. Audiences just want to be entertained and the reason they start shouting out is usually because they are not laughing instead. Sometimes your jokes may play flat, which happens as not everyone in every audience will get all the puns and you might just be unlucky that its one of the rude children that like to shout out that don't get the jokes. But then I have enough jokes in my act, taking place every few seconds that even if they don't get one joke, they will get the next. So they never really have enough time to think about a line before I'm onto the next one. And all the jokes are connected into a story or narrative so that they are focused on that also. 5. Uterlise the puppets key characteristics. My monkey likes to eat its foot. My crocodile goes to eat the children. The spell book puppet is called a smell book. Find something that the puppet is funny without the need of extra props that only it can do. It gives it a unique selling point and is a visual clue for you in the routine for you to use that joke. Audiences like people that are willing to make fun of themselves for entertainment and the same goes for your puppets. If it can make fun of itself, it becomes more likeable. 6. Loud is fun. Obviously a routine should be a rollercoaster of emotion and voice levels, but come out loud and exciting and the audience take notice. If you need to end the joke on a 'high', do it on a loud note. It usually punctuates the punch line better. 7. Face the puppet When your talking to it. Too many vents like to face the audience along with the puppet whole talking. This is unnatural and will break the illusion of having a real conversation with the audience. Even children know that when you talk to someone, you face them. So when talking to the puppet, turn your head to look at it. And when the puppet talks to you, have it face you. The puppet can talk to the audience as can you also, but when talking to each other make it look proper by facing each other. This has two benefits. One it helps build the fact that the puppet is real because you are treating it as real, and therefore the illusion is enhanced. Two - you can now move the side of your mouth not facing the audience as they cant see it. It makes you vent a lot easier and more convincing. 8. Don't worry about the vent. I've seen some weird looking teeth on ventriloquists who think that weird smile they do to stop their lips moving looks natural. It isn't. I've see others with faces like they are numb from the dentist. These weird facial expressions just attract attention and scream out 'look at me' rather than at the puppet. Sometimes more damage to the routine can be caused by trying to stop your lips moving and making your face the more entertaining part as it looks weird. I find it better if you talk natural, and look naturally, and as long as you have a funny script - the puppet will command the attention and its not that the children will see your lips moving, its the simple fact that they wont care because they are laughing so much. I stand by the idea that a little thought towards not moving the lips is defiantly a good idea, but they just need to only move a little, they don't need to be absolutely still. 9. TV and camera work is slightly different and admittedly you can get away with almost anything in a live show, but within the frame of a television your lips will be attracting more attention. The show all teeth smile approach seems to be used more when a camera is pointing at them. But for anyone trying vent in their shows, realize that they don't need to be as good as the act they see on the TV, because what they are doing on the TV recording is a one-off type of act which may have been recorded numerous times and edited together to hide the mouth movements in the editing room. But in the real world, they don't notice it as much, especially because your lips and small and the audience is sat far away. They cant see your lips from their distance anyway, unlike on camera when its zoomed in for a closeup and your mouth takes up half the screen. 10. Have fun with your puppet. If you are having fun and enjoying what the puppet is saying, then that enjoyment comes across and it is infectious with your audience. Suddenly everybody is having fun and no-one cares about the fact that its a puppet. So choose your puppet wisely. As some animals, objects, people I cant make funny just because its not in my nature to like them so I ended up selling them on eBay. But certain other puppets I was making funny from the moment I picked them up and they have been in the show for years. You have to like your puppet and you have to have fun when your up there on the stage. Show no fear, and fake confidence even if its your first time. If you show any fear whatsoever, the vultures will pounce on you. There's my tips. Hope they help. |
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harris Inner circle Harris Deutsch 8812 Posts |
Wierd look on mouth...
I agree. I learned on my own prior to taking the Maher Course. My mouth looks the same as if I was not talking, when Nigel is talking. Also I am blessed with a neck that doesn't move. Personally I think vent is a good addition to puppets... I also do some characters without vent, as well as silent Bob(my rocky), Pervis a 3 and 1/2 foot Elvis look a like, and Clarence the 3 foot tall roller skating clown. (with blinking eyes..and moveable fingers) the last 2 are both Marionettes.
Harris Deutsch aka dr laugh
drlaugh4u@gmail.com music, magic and marvelous toys http://magician.org/member/drlaugh4u |
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danfreed Inner circle West Chester PA 1354 Posts |
Very helpful post Stephen, I appreciate all the info, and it seems like solid advice. Hadn't thought about choosing a puppet with a big mouth. 2 of the 3 I own have very big mouths, but I was using a dog with a small mouth when I had the problems - though I know it wasn't the only issue. I think also there was some awkwardness in the routine cause I was trying something new out and I think it needs work, and I was less confident in my presentation of it due to that, which didn't help.
Dan Freed
AKA The Amazing Spaghetti https://www.magiciandanfreed.com/birthday-party-magician-for-kids http://thecaricatureartist.com http://danieljayfreed.com |
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