What do you think about this idea?
I think its overproved, because it puts the attention in the hands in a wrong moment.
But if the performer wants to do, fine

Opening the other hand should be the end of a feint vanish. Doing any kind of handwashing or display after the fact is a step backwards.

I would have to disagree it fits and flows well in my One coin (nothing more) routine and have had GREAT success using it that way.
Just my two cents. This is a perfect example of sometimes we think to much. If done right and in the right circumstance anything is possible.
Tim
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hyAzNbAGP1Q
http://vinnymarini.com/download/

Wouldn't NOT doing the wipe be thinking less?

Get ahold of a copy of palms of steel 2 and check kainoa harbottle's work on handwashing after a spider vanish, I use it to my advantage all the time.

When I say we think too much I'm referring too the physiological part of it, not how many moves we do.
You claim that doing a hand-wash after a spider vanish negates the physiological part of the spider vanish. I'm just saying I don't feel that way.
Tim

It depends on the performer there is no other explanation.

I always think handwashing is too much, sometimes I use bertini pinky display which I think is ok but handwashing is overprooving.

But, it is like that with me with my style and I think its just great when Tim does it.

My style isn't like it's gone now it's there and there gone again nothing here or there and it's there.

I love spider vanishes, I take the coin make it dissapear and that's a magic trick and then they think where is it? Logic tells them that it is in the other hand but its not, then its a miracle.
And after the little miracle when a coin is gone completly I don't handwash. It's not here and not here... because it would be a step back for me and I would be back to magic trick

So it depends on you and your style, mine isn't so fast like like Tim's.

I found use for a transfer about a beat after showing the other hand empty - though done under a gesture of raising both hands up - it's in Harry Lorayne's Apocalypse as one of two acquitments in a short article. The other one works with more coins but is a more like Ramsay's thimble transfer.

The beauty of the spider vanish is that the the vanish has a built in sublety that eliminates the need for a "wiped clean sequence".

Seems to me the move is akin to running and not being chased.

First, if you can't do a convincing transfer and then develop a moment in the routine where a vanish or transformation happens - the sleights just don't help. They risk turning magic into fussing.

About the transfer... it depends on where you want to go after the vanish. I'd prefer to hold out in my left hand using fingerpalm and so developed those transfers.

After re-reading my post this morning I felt I should clarify that the "move" akin to running without being chased I referenced was the "wiped clean" sequence and not the spider vanish.

Jonathan I agree with you wholeheartedly concerning your first point.

I would do a wiped clean type thing only if I were to put the coin in a sl**ve. Other than that, I don't really care for those things.

Unless you do the hand washing sequence VERY badly, so that it appears you're trying prove something rather than making an unconscious action, it probably won’t hurt things (see Feher’s routine) but it’s completely unnecessary, unless you need it to reposition the coin for another effect.

The whole point of a double-feint vanish is to prepare the audience to expect that the coin is “in the other hand” and then to disprove this theory. If done correctly, pausing a second, and then letting the hand be seen empty (rather than showing it empty) the audience will be left with NO explanation.

Here’s how it works in the spectator’s mind:
1. Coin disappears from his left hand, he produces it from his elbow with his right.
2. Coins disappears from his left hand again and he produces it form his knee with his right.
3. Coin is placed in his left hand a third time… he’s going to produce it from somewhere with his right hand… the coin IS IN HIS RIGHT HAND! I’VE GOT THIS FIGURED OUT!
4. He reaches into air and grabs something in his right fist. THE COIN IS IN HIS RIGHT HAND. I KNOW WHAT’S GOING TO HAPPEN NEXT.
5. He’s looking into his hand, with a puzzled look on his face, what’s wrong?
6. He drops his right and slumps his shoulders like he’s lost the coin. As his hand drops to his side I can see his empty palm. WHERE THE HECK DID THE COIN GO?
7. He says he’s got another coin somewhere, but when he checks his pockets he doesn’t. I loan him a quarter…

There should be a delay of a beat or two to allow the spectators to be certain of what they know. Then you let them realize they are mistaken. Never show them they are wrong.

The main reason I do a hand-wipe after a spider vanish in my routine is I wanted to get the coin into my left hand. I do a modifed Ammars wipe clean which I guess you can say its a transfer wipe.....lol I think it works well because the spectators see no coin in my left hand twice then I produce a coin from their ear with my left. They usually say whoa where did that come from and I reply " your ear of course " then continue on to the last phase.
Would I do this all the time NO, only if the routine requires it for me and it still flows within the routine.
Tim

In Feher's sequence, the wiped clean segment comes at a logical spot and does not interfere with the thought process. There is just enough handwashing that it actually makes sense. Extreme handwashing, such as that done by bad manipulators is more of a "see if you can catch me" thing.

In general, though, I don't particularly like handwashing sequences at all. I also don't like ANY coin vanish that looks like you are getting ready to do bad shadowgraphy.

Woah!

making hand shadows that produce or vanish coins... excellent!

Bill and John...obviously you are referring to the Jimmy Wilson palm with the hand shadow comment.

I disagree. To me this is one of the most deceptive concealments or productions when used properly in a routine...or should I say when not overused.

You have to have the proper motivation to have your hand in that position.

Rich B.

Tim's gesture falls perfectly in pace and place but for other performers, there are other clean ups than hand whiping (secret drop in left hand).

I agree, Tim uses the handwashing at the appropriate time and pace, and it is done matter-0f-factly and doesn't rouse any suspicion. It is not overused and thus used properly. But there are many who fall way too in love with this hand movement and draw the very attention they are trying to avoid.