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mike_york Loyal user 228 Posts |
I am looking for a set of plans on how to build a vanishing dove cage. I already have the Osborne plans.
I am looking for the one leg version of the effect. You know where the cage base only has a single post that runs down to three feet. I am unclear on how to make such a model. Also, are the bars made the same? Thanks so much for your help, Mike |
Chance Wolf Inner circle 2425 Posts |
Hey Mike,
This is a touchy situation. In my opinion, if you find these plans, go to Norm's website and take a look at his. If they are NOT credited and sold by Norm Nielson, then you should not build it. As far as I know, Norm does NOT sell these plans. Norm has been RIPPED OFF so badly including companies on a particular website I have been TRUTHFULLY critical of ( which now seems to be against the rules of the Café). I have SO MUCH respect for Norm and his creative genius that I have to step up, defend his property/rights and hope that you are seeking another model rather than his. As far as actually building this effect, it is a DIFFICULT trick to build and requires metal machining and expert woodworking for everything to work in order. Trust me on this, save your money and buy Norm's and stay away from the SO CALLED improved models that add an extra little feature and think that that allows them the right to rip-off the entire working method of the rest of the cage which is the actual genius behind the effect in the first place. I apologize for the rant but this is one particular creator that has been dumped on by other companies and it is simply sad. Good luck with your project. Chance Wolf Wolf's Magic
Creator of Wacky Wolf Productions & Fine Collectibles
A DECADE of building Magic and we're just getting started! http://www.wolfsmagic.com |
mike_york Loyal user 228 Posts |
I did not realize this was the case. I thought it was just a newer version of the effect. I am sorry to hear that Norm has been ripped off so badly in the past.
I just did a google search and found about 7 takes of his cage. I also went to Norm’s site, very beautiful cage. I realized it was not going to be easy. However, I feel it's in my best interest to hire it done. I will get in touch with Norm. Thanks so much for bring that to my attention Chance! Mike |
Chance Wolf Inner circle 2425 Posts |
Mike,
No sweat . I am glad you understand and respect the creator. It is a pretty BLATENT situation when you actually research the cage comparisons and these guys actually have the nerve to state "it's improved". Unbelievable. I am sure they sleep at night due to lack of character and respect but let us not fall to that level. I personally owned a Nielson cage and have seen the rip-offs. Do NOT let them fool you, Norm's IS Superior. I only sold mine because I never actually did dove work. I just bought it in pure appreciation and curiosity. (Back in the good ol' days when I had money to burn.) Try to find a USED Nielson Cage on Ebay or MagicAuction.com. They pop up now and then for great prices. But I recommend a sparkly new one. Take care and good luck! Chance
Creator of Wacky Wolf Productions & Fine Collectibles
A DECADE of building Magic and we're just getting started! http://www.wolfsmagic.com |
illusionguy New user 11 Posts |
Hello Chance. (Go check out the Illusion Chat), interesting...
Hi Mike, I have a Norm Neilson cage in excellent condition. It has served me well in many revues. It has been packed up ever since I left magic and would entertain an offer. It is the 2nd edition Norm put out (tracking system). Was going to sell it as a collectors item ... but if someone could use it... |
Chance Wolf Inner circle 2425 Posts |
Illusion guy,
Any particular thread you found interesting in Illusion Chat? I get a bit hot-headed and you as an owner of a Norm cage may understand. You can see what a tremendous amount of R&D was involved to create that effect. Hey Mike, you should try to cut a deal for his cage. Sounds like a good opportunity. Take care Chance
Creator of Wacky Wolf Productions & Fine Collectibles
A DECADE of building Magic and we're just getting started! http://www.wolfsmagic.com |
illusionguy New user 11 Posts |
Hey Chance!
I was just chatting about Solo-X book is all. Proprietary / intellectual rights ect... I get very opinionated... more than I should! When I was younger I always wanted one of Norms cages. I especially liked his first version. It was a taller cage, which made the table of course look thinner, and the effect more impossible! I wish he still made it that way with the (*&^&*!!) and perhaps the beveled table. He is a perfectionist... |
Chance Wolf Inner circle 2425 Posts |
illusionguy,
I read your opinions on the thread and I fully agree. There is a line of common sense as to what intellectual property means. Too many guys out there spending more time trying to "improve" something rather than taking the real challenge and create something totally new. When I create a new effect, I try to either start with the OLDEST principle in the history of magic and breathe new life into it. This is the safest way to "recreate or improve" something. Otherwise, I have no choice but to start with a clean slate and create something completley fresh. This debate will go on forever and those defending the "right to improve" are usually the ones with the smallest list of truly original effects. I owned one of Norm's cages about 10 years ago. I bought it new directly from him and it was a sweet example of true craftsmanship. I REGRET selling it to this day. It never had a dove in it. Mint condition. I am curious to see his original model. Do you have any pics of this version? Take care, Chance
Creator of Wacky Wolf Productions & Fine Collectibles
A DECADE of building Magic and we're just getting started! http://www.wolfsmagic.com |
illusionguy New user 11 Posts |
Hello Chance!
I sure don't have a pic of the first one but it is on Doug's first special if you have a copy of that. You'll notice a slight "box" on the underside. But like I said the "Cage" is much taller and looks very nice. His cages are the best! Finally I had to give up on that other thread. These guys just don't get it. And you are right, they are the ones who keep reinventing the wheel! Take care Chance |
R2 Special user 935 Posts |
Get in touch with Emory Williams of Williams Magic Shop in Tucson, Az....You live near Phoenix no?
He built us a very nice single pedestal one for $600 dollars...perhaps he would sell you his plans.... Be sure to ask him for a hometown Discount... Best o' luck!,rr |
mike_york Loyal user 228 Posts |
Once again ReyRey you came to the rescue. Yeah I'm up in Paradise Valley.
Do you still have your cage? If you do is there any chance you have a pic of it? Does he do custom work? Thanks for all of your help, Mike |
R2 Special user 935 Posts |
Yes custom work is his forte'.....
He used to make some illusions for the Ronald McDonald Promotions a few years back... He is too modest to admit much of his abilities..... Good luck .... rr |
dove-boy Special user Joe Yu (Stage Name) 545 Posts |
Hi All
I agree, Norm builds one of the nicest dove cages around. Initially I though of getting one from him, but personally I realized a problem, Norm's version does not have a cage floor & border. This is very crucial & VERY important because if one of the doves hops off the perch, it will looks very strange from the audience view because 'HALF' the dove is gone if you know what I mean. Also if a border is added too, it will looks like the cage is separate from the base. Other than these two problems, Norm's version surpasses the rest in beauty. I did highlight this issue to Lupe (Norm's wife) before. She explained the reason of not having the floor is to make the base thinner, but personally I don't see any difference. Proline can make one with BOTH border & base at ONLY 2.5 inch thick. By the way, I own both the Gemini Cage(Dove to girl by Creative Illusion) & Proline dove cage, all come with the cage floor & border. Should one day Norm make a version with base & border, I will definitely be the first to grab one! doveboy |
Eldon Inner circle Virden, IL 1137 Posts |
I've seen (actually repaired)several NN cages. I'm pretty sure I've seen Proline's cage. If it is the one I'm thinking of then I don't think he is ripping anyone off. I came up with a design very similer to Cliffs cage years ago. Wish I would have built it.
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Shadow Dancer New user Melbourne, Australia 61 Posts |
I know the one you mean. Its Brilliant! My friend has one of them. But, he doesn't have the plans for it.
Good luck! Shadow Dancer...
'The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious.'
<br> AlbertEinstein |
masterpiecemagic New user 1 Post |
Hi all,
Norm Neilsen has NOT been ripped off! I know of NO version on the market past or present that uses his method.My cage uses a completely differnt principle with several unique/original ideas. Back to the topic. I do agree that in this case, it would be better to buy than build. Cliff Wiggs Proline Magic |
zigmont Regular user 140 Posts |
Norm has been RIPPED OFF so badly including companies on a particular website I have been TRUTHFULLY critical of ( which now seems to be against the rules of the Café).
I have SO MUCH respect for Norm and his creative genius that I have to step up, defend his property/rights and hope that you are seeking another model <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ok before Norm had a Cage on the market, the only vanishing cage was from Owen Magic Supreme and abbott's (if you call that box a cage). Did Norm rip off Owens Magic or C. Pollack when making his cage? Did Owens get RIPPED OFF so badly by Norm? Norm wasn't the inventor of the Vanishing Cage, Norm like Proline made a working model. I seen all the cages and they all work differently. As I understand Norm's cage has major problem with the bars sticking out of the cage when it's closing. My two cents PS When Proline's cage came out, was when Norm was selling the last of his cages and announced they are were discountinued. I seen Chalet have a proline cage at conventions, Viking sold some,Denny & Lee it is/was on their website,Hank Lee and tilford have sold them. Norm started making them again once proline was doing well.
Zigmont
Magic F/X |
tilford New user 75 Posts |
HI STEVE ZIGMONT
Joe Stevens also has sold the Pro-Line Dove Cage Vanish. Hocus Pocus had a Dove Cage Vanish titled Pro Dove Cage Vanish but I don t think it was Proline.
http://www.tilfordillusions.com
magician@tilfordillusions.com Phone (386) 322-7308 Fax (386) 761-3973 |
prolineprops Regular user 125 Posts |
Hi all,
I know this is an old thread but I feel the need to continue to defend myself as this is also another current topic on this board. Fact: Connie Hayden built 3 cages, one of which was used by Channing Pollack on the Ed Sulivan show.Owen's makes a version of this now and some credit them with inventing the dove cage vanish. Fact: Approx. 10 years latter Neilsen copied it exactly and marketed it. Fact: Johnny Thompson latter developed a new and in my opinion inferior method for Norm's cage to help speed production. Fact: Jan's Magic introduced the first cage with a beveled table in 1975. Fact: Neilsen borrowed this idea and marketed his "new streamlined" cage in beginning in 1982. Fact: I, Proline Magic, offer a cage with a beveled table and to this day stand accused of copying Norm's cage. I've spoken to Norm and this is indeed the only feature he is reffering to in his quote "others have tried to copy our model and produced an inferior product...don't be misled my cheap imitations". I realize he is the beloved Norm Neilsen but this is very wrong. Cliff Wiggs Proline Magic |
Chance Wolf Inner circle 2425 Posts |
Wow...this thread is back up again? Seems like a year ago.
I have made a new Café policy to NOT post anything about ethics as I have found more excuses than facts and people simply driving me nuts with bad logic and lame rationalities. I am making an exception for several reasons and will follow up on this topic. Please note that I DID NOT specifically implicate Proline or Cliff within my above posts. Cliff and I just finished a phone conversation regarding this topic. He brought up some interesting FACTS which have made me re-think this issue a bit. These facts are stated above and we went into further depth on several points. I will leave my opinion as undecided ( which who really gives a *** about what I think ) and just say that everybody involved could use a good sit down and chat to resolve some issues. Cliff is a good guy and he is trying hard to build quality magic and DOES build Quality Magic. I gave him a few bits of my perspective, regarding my approach to innovating/improving/recreating old or new magic effects. We both seem to be on the same page and all is cool. Good luck with your new challenges Cliff and I look forward to your new product we discussed. Chance Wolf Wolf's Magic
Creator of Wacky Wolf Productions & Fine Collectibles
A DECADE of building Magic and we're just getting started! http://www.wolfsmagic.com |
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