|
|
T.G Kenny Loyal user Malaysia 243 Posts |
Hello,
How do you consider an act to be "Original"? Original sleights with original scene? Or original scene with classic sleights? Thank you! |
magic4u02 Eternal Order Philadelphia, PA 15110 Posts |
Original scene with classic slights.
For me the slights are the tools of the trade. A master craftsman know just which tools to use to create a new masterpiece. Kyle
Kyle Peron
http://www.kylekellymagic.com Entertainers Product Site http://kpmagicproducts.com Join Our Facebook Fan Page at http://facebook.com/perondesign |
Jimeh Inner circle Ottawa, Ontario 1399 Posts |
Original scene with classic slights.
|
Michael Baker Eternal Order Near a river in the Midwest 11172 Posts |
If original scene with classic sleights is original, then the other is by default.
If it had been stated, "original sleights with classic scene" this may or may not be different. It could be an original rendering of the classic scene in much the same way some modern films are based on the plots of Shakespeare and others. If on the other hand, the scene appears identical, it should not be considered original even if the methods used are different and original. Methods and sleights are hidden from what is presented. To the viewer, nothing would have changed. In general though, I agree with what has already been posted. You don't have to invent paint to create an original work of art.
~michael baker
The Magic Company |
Peter Pitchford Elite user Philly 423 Posts |
One can create an original presentation. (John Pyka)
One can create new effects and new routining. (Tom Stone) One can create new sleights. (An Ha Lim - actually he would be this one combined with the one immediately above). Being original is extremely difficult. It requires an incredible amount of labor (and often financial investment). It hurts but in the end is rewarding like nothing else. |
magic4u02 Eternal Order Philadelphia, PA 15110 Posts |
You are right. Besides, I feel my audiences deserve that of me.
Kyle
Kyle Peron
http://www.kylekellymagic.com Entertainers Product Site http://kpmagicproducts.com Join Our Facebook Fan Page at http://facebook.com/perondesign |
T.G Kenny Loyal user Malaysia 243 Posts |
Original sleights with original scene, now that's originality for me. I just created a card act, I don't know if it is original but I haven't see anything like that before.
Will post my promotional video here soon, so you guys can have a look at it, let me know if it is not original! Thanks guys!!! |
magic4u02 Eternal Order Philadelphia, PA 15110 Posts |
I guess my point is that you do not have to go back to reinventing the basic tools of the trade to be original. A crafsman still can use the same hammer and same saws and same tools but each can create an original masterpiece with those same tools.
Kyle
Kyle Peron
http://www.kylekellymagic.com Entertainers Product Site http://kpmagicproducts.com Join Our Facebook Fan Page at http://facebook.com/perondesign |
George Ledo Magic Café Columnist SF Bay Area 3042 Posts |
This term "original" is so funny... it can be debated endlessly and people still will not agree on what it means.
To answer the question, however, to me an act is "original" if the whole piece comes across as a unified entity that stands on its own and makes a clear "statement" (another word that can be debated endlessly) that's different than anything else out there at the time. Examples: Tina Lenert's "janitor" act, Lance's old dove act (complete with costume and music), Cardini's drunk act, Jay Marshall's "Lefty." Most of the material itself wasn't brand-new, but the twist on it, tied into the performer's strong personality and a clear beginning-middle-end structure, for me, constituted an original act. Other examples of the twist-with-strong-personality combination (forgetting about magic for a moment) include Fred Astaire, Bob Hope, Frank Sinatra, Al Hirshfeld, Victor Borge, Red Skelton, Robin Williams, Eddie Murphy, Madonna, Jack Benny, Liberace, Elton John, and many others. To me, all these -- and lots more today -- are "originals."
That's our departed buddy Burt, aka The Great Burtini, doing his famous Cups and Mice routine
www.georgefledo.net Latest column: "Sorry about the photos in my posts here" |
Father Photius Grammar Host El Paso, TX (Formerly Amarillo) 17161 Posts |
Would have to agree with both Michael and George. The sleights are classic the application is what you make it. Originality comes from within the performer. I've seen successive manipulation acts in contests in which I felt I had watched the same act several times in a row. They were all different, but nothing was coming out of the performer, only the sleights being done.
"Now here's the man with the 25 cent hands, that two bit magician..."
|
George Ledo Magic Café Columnist SF Bay Area 3042 Posts |
Yesterday, after I posted the above, I was on another thread and came across the phrase "point of view." I don't think I could find it now if my life depended on it, but I think that's a good way of assessing whether an act is "original." Like Father Photius, said, it's so common to just see a bunch of effects one after the other, but nothing coming from the performer -- no point of view.
That's our departed buddy Burt, aka The Great Burtini, doing his famous Cups and Mice routine
www.georgefledo.net Latest column: "Sorry about the photos in my posts here" |
Anatole Inner circle 1912 Posts |
Originality in an act can have a multitude of meanings/interpretations, from choosing original music to choosing original props for manipulation. Richard Ross's choice of large pocket watches for production no doubt contributed to the success of his act. One of the most original torn and restored paper handlings I ever saw was Christopher Hart's torn and restored music sheet. I mention these not as effects to be appropriated or copied, but as effects that illustrate how other magicians have added their own touch to relatively standard effects.
I've always thought it would be novel when producing cards singly from the BP to produce some with the backs showing rather than the faces.. and then have the backs start changing colors or back design. For a while, I ended a production of single cards with a fan showing the backs of a fanning deck so that a pattern fan would appear rather than a mass of white that from a distance wouldn't be recognizable as cards anyway. Another idea I had was to drop the produced cards into a "foo hat" and then turn the hat upside down and the cards either disappear or change into a Rice full-house silk. I once worked on a magic/music idea where the cards I produced would have music notes on them and follow with the color-changing records, How about combining the vanish of a Zombie with the production of a card castle from the foulard? I often thought it would be nice at the end of a dancing cane routine if you could use the cane for a "cane/hat table" to be used as a receptacle for the multiplying balls. (You wouldn't be able to do that with the traditional metal cane-to-table, but I think Abbott's used to sell a simpler cane-to-table that was made of wood. But that was back in the '60's.) I think if you could work with other theater people that they could help with ideas. If you're in high school or college, consult with someone from the theater department. Or volunteer for a Little Theater group, Didn't David Copperfield get his start helping with the production of "Pippin" in Chicago? -----Amado "Sonny" Narvaez
----- Sonny Narvaez
|
magic4u02 Eternal Order Philadelphia, PA 15110 Posts |
I kind of like to look at developing a manipulation act by thinking past the obvious and going beyond the norm in regards to the props we use. Who says a manipulator must use billiard balls, coins, cards or thimbles? The only people who say this are the magicians ourselves.
We tend to hinder our own personal growth by always trying to contain ourselves to what we feel we have to do because that is what manipulative magic is all about. I say simply.. WHY? Why hinder yourself and your creativity by forcing your mind into a funnel that will only limit your results? So what happens when we look beyond the norm? Well failure can certainly happen and that scares so many people that they come running back to what they consider "safe". That is the life of a manipulator trying to tread on new grounds. However, I say, sure you may fail but isn't failure a learning tool? To me failure is not failure at all unless you fail at really learning from it. If you do learn from failure, then isn't failure just a stepping stone to success? I say yes! So strive to break out of this box that tells you a manipulator has to think a certain way or move a certain way or perform with certain objects. Now I am not saying give up on the foundations of manipulation. I want to be clear on that. A good manipulator must study and learn the building blocks of the manipulative art. This means learning, reading, watching videos and really understanding the moves and fundamentals of the manipulative art. An architect can not begin to build a new and different building until he learns to study the foundations that will hold it all together. The same applies to the manipulator. Learn these fundamentals of manipulation but do NOT force yourself into searching your magic videos or DVDs for inspiration on coming up with creative ideas for your own act. This is what so many of us do wrong. We go searching to latch on to what we feel has already been done, tested and know works. We do this because it is the safe way out. It is easy to follow what another has done. The heat is off of us. It it fails, it is not our fault, but the fault of the person who's routine we may have used. Go beyond this. Do not force yourself into taking the easy way out. No one said creativity for a manipulator was going to be easy. It is not, but I can tell you that creativity and your own mind can create some of the most imaginative manipulation you have ever seen. You just have to try it and train your mind into thinking in creative terms. The magician Topas is a perfect example of this. Here is a man who obviously understands the foundations of manipulative magic but refuses to use the common props of the trade and refuses to do the same old thing. He has charted new grounds and territories by expanding upon what is possible if we just reach out. Why does a card have to always be a card? Break it down to simple terms and it really is a mere shape. A billard ball is also just a round circle. When you learn to break down the barriers that hinder us, you learn to realize that there are so many objects out there in our everyday world that can be adapted to moves and the foundations of which you already know. The idea is to go out there and find them and study them and work with them. Once you do that then you can really start to think in a creative fashion. Now your magic becomes as unique as you are and the character you play on stage in your manipulative act. If your act starts to use different and unique props, then these props could very well factor into a story being told by your character as you are doing the manipulations. Now you start to add and build in "layers" to your act. "Layers" to me is a term referring to what you as a manipulator can personally add to your act that is above and beyond a mere showing of skill alone. Sure a manipulator has to have skill, but should that be the only thing the audience has to latch on to? I say no way. Give the audience so much more then that. These layers can be anything such as themes, character, style, pacing, transition effects and emotional response to just name a few. Each of these starts to give the audience so much more to get excited about. Soon the manipulative act is not just a guy showing off some killer skill and me expecting to clap for it. The manipulator, using these layers can develop responses in the audience that are emotional in nature just based upon character or theme of what he or she is presenting on stage. So I say go and reach for creativity. Seek and study different objects that are not the norm for a manipulator. Learn from them and build upon them. Go away from your videos for inspiration for your act and learn to look at culture and the arts and music to give you ideas that have not been done before or even thought of, There is so much more where manipulative magic can go if we are willing to not be afraid of trying. Kyle
Kyle Peron
http://www.kylekellymagic.com Entertainers Product Site http://kpmagicproducts.com Join Our Facebook Fan Page at http://facebook.com/perondesign |
Anatole Inner circle 1912 Posts |
Kyle has made some interesting comments on the dues that have to be paid on the "royal road to manipulation." I remember being determined to master the spring flourishes (basic springing from hand to hand; pressure fan; armspread and turnover). I remember particularly how at first the cards fell off my arm doing the armspread/turnover. In the beginning I could only do it while wearing a sports coat--the sleeve giving me extra "surface width" and a surface that wasn't as slippery as my bare arm. Also, in the beginning I could only spread the cards as far as my elbow. Eventually I could do it on my bare arm past my elbow. My first pressure fans went only as far as my ring finger. But eventually I got them to be 3/4 of a circle.
I wrote this poem about the struggle to master any skill: Don't be afraid of failing. Success is seldom earned Without mistakes, a few bad breaks From which we all have learned. So never give up trying. Don't give to to despair. For when the last obstacle's passed, Success is waiting there. ----- Amado "Sonny" Narvaez
----- Sonny Narvaez
|
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Finger/stage manipulation » » [SURVEY]Manipulative question (0 Likes) |
[ Top of Page ] |
All content & postings Copyright © 2001-2024 Steve Brooks. All Rights Reserved. This page was created in 0.06 seconds requiring 5 database queries. |
The views and comments expressed on The Magic Café are not necessarily those of The Magic Café, Steve Brooks, or Steve Brooks Magic. > Privacy Statement < |