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Irfaan New user South Africa 56 Posts |
Hello
Ok, so I can do a few single productions and my back palming is fairly decent (Thank you, Mr McBride). I justed wanted to ask, a fancy cut or fan, when performing a set for people . . . won't it harm rather than enhance your "magic"? I mean, if you're presenting "magic", then I would guess that superior skill with cards or coins or balls or whatever would enhance the idea of "sleight of hand" with the spectators, rather than "magic". I'm not saying that it won't be extremely entertaining, but it won't be magic anymore, would it? Of course, this doesn't apply to all flourishes (for example I do Daryl's Fantasy Aces a lot, but I present it as if the cards are appearing against my will and I apologize profusely as they appear!). And they're good for manipulative routines (but that's a category by itself - separate to a "normal" performance). So, not being a great manipulator myself, I'm just curious for your expert opinions - to either set me straight or agree with me.
I Believe
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ying New user Lichtenvoorde, Netherlands 38 Posts |
Is Ricky Jays card scaling perceived as magical or skill?
Does it detract from his routines? |
Tomer Regular user Israel 113 Posts |
There was a discussion about this a a few days ago in "The Workers", here:
http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewt......rum=2&31 |
Irfaan New user South Africa 56 Posts |
Thanks. Ying, I've never seen this from Ricky Jay. Do you have a link for a video?
I Believe
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ying New user Lichtenvoorde, Netherlands 38 Posts |
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Irfaan New user South Africa 56 Posts |
Yes, those were excellent. With the exception of the manipulation stuff, it still wasn't magic though was it?
I Believe
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ying New user Lichtenvoorde, Netherlands 38 Posts |
Quote:
On 2009-03-18 01:11, riley_5000 wrote: Are you familiar with Ricky Jays regular work? |
Irfaan New user South Africa 56 Posts |
Yes. He's a fantastic magician. Please don't mis-understand - Fred Kaps' manipulation set, or McBride's set is FANTASTIC magic.
My question was more for the "normal" kind of performances. For example, if I'm doing the ambitious card, and suddenly produce a great fan, or produce the card with some flourishy cut, then I feel that that detracts from the magic, making it seem more like skill with cards than magic. When I perform the ace production (using a four card top change), I do it as if by accident, slowly and always in a slightly sloppy manner (like a "normal" person would do it), so that no peculiar skill is detected. Anyway, I'm sure that in right context, displays of skill would be perfect - such as a gambling demonstration. But not, in my opinion, in "magic" (with the exception of manipulative routines.
I Believe
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ying New user Lichtenvoorde, Netherlands 38 Posts |
It depends on presentation, how you want to present yourself. It works for me though, doing sybil cuts, akiras and tectonic verbs. People like it. But then again, I never present my tricks as 'magic'. I present it as an artform. I know everyone does, but I actually spell it out. I actually tell my audience that just like comedy creates laughter and drama tears, magic creates wonder. People seem to accept this. But this might not work for you, depending on the persona you present.
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Irfaan New user South Africa 56 Posts |
I see your point . . .
Yeah, my persona is the bungling magician (always get big laughs - and gasps when the magic happens). I usually get really quiet when the effect happens, looking astounded myself - also it gives the audience a chance to absorb what just happened. Flourishes might work for me, but only in a Cardini sort of way - and I don't want to copy Cardini (or anybody). SO, I'll keep my cut / flourish practice alive for showing off to magician's and my girlfriend, also it makes me handle cards with more confidence. Thanks Ying. All the best.
I Believe
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trashmanf Loyal user 300 Posts |
You can always do it as a separate act and don't mix the two. I do a flourishes act that's just a bunch of fans, armspreads, etc and also a completely different act involving productions, vanishes, McBride's material basically. what I found was that if you start with the magic, then the flourish act gets a bit less reaction later (they have already seen the "impossible", so the "very difficult" is possibly a step down?)
However the younger audience really likes flourishes as opposed to the long-winded talking style magic tricks, so you might want to do tricks using some of the same PLOTS , but have the option to spice up your magic with flourishes if it fits your audience. For example a simple sloppy shuffle or two-handed riffle if it's your "bumbling magician" persona, but a one-handed shuffle and sybil cut otherwise? personally I'd rather just tear it up as much as possible since nobody beleives you're doin real magic anyways... LOL |
ying New user Lichtenvoorde, Netherlands 38 Posts |
Quote:
On 2009-03-18 13:41, trashmanf wrote: qft |
Irfaan New user South Africa 56 Posts |
I think that they you can MAKE them believe in magic. If you perform well, and it looks clean, and you don't pass it of as a trick.
I've had some astounding reactions from people, from the "That's Impossible!" to the "Don't say it's true!" More than once people have jumped off their chairs and ran away laughing, coming back later to demand to inspect everything. I believe that real magic happens when the magician believes in it himself. But to each his own, I guess. Some magician's place entertainment value above the magic, which is fine. Of course it's entertaining, but it's not magic is it?
I Believe
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ying New user Lichtenvoorde, Netherlands 38 Posts |
Each kind of presentation has its own perks. To some people, the effect might seem stronger if you present it as magic while on the other hand, I don't have to deal with the "oh, it's a trick!" kind of mentality since I implicitly told them upfront. On another note though, I'm Dutch, and in the Netherlands, we don't call magic "magic". We call it "goochelen", which already kind of ruins the whole "oh it's magic" kind of presentation since everyone knows "goochelen" is about tricking people. But when I mention that it's an artform, involving tricking the eye while the mind knows otherwise, people seem to go along with it.
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