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gdw Inner circle 4884 Posts |
Just a bunch of Cover Bands??? Karaoke artists?
I put this in Food for Thought, but I thought this might be an appropriate location for it as well. It is an ethics thing. Not sure which is the better place for it. Though this was something I have thought about before, while watching Paul Harris' True Astonishments series, something Paul said in an interview got me thinking about it again. It was something that was reflected in all of the performances on the dvds, though you may not have thought about it this way. In one of the interviews with Harris, he comments about about an appearance on TV in which he performed Al Schneider’s classic Matrix routine. He felt proud about it, feeling that it was him that made the impression. He later started to think about how he was taking credit fr a performance of someone else's work. Now, the performance of it was Harris', and the skill used was certainly his, but the effect was the work of someone else. He commented, not sure if it was the same interview or another, about referencing the people behind the routines you perform, essentially crediting them during your performances. This is clearly seen in Bro's Performances on the DVDs, during which he pretty much credits someone with every performance of every effect. So this is what got me thinking. Essentially, we are, more than in any other art, performers of other peoples work. This is not to take away credit from the work we ourselves put into learning these routines, and techniques, and our own additions and touches on these routines. The same as a singer doing their own rendition of the Beatles Yesterday deserves full credit for what they do with that song. And yes, many of us develop many of our "own" effects. Though often just variations on already existing plots, etc, but also usually using techniques of others. So what, yes? Many musicians make a living doing covers. However, those songs are usually well know and thus the audience already knows who to credit with writing the song, and even if they don't, if that performer has a CD of their performance, the credit can be given on the cd's insert, etc. Or on a program for the performance. Now, we don't generally have any of those luxuries in our performances. Very few people have seen, let alone know the originators, of most of the effects we perform, we don't have any cd inserts, or programs we can hand out at most of our performances, so what should we do? If anything at all?? Bro, and Harris seem to believe throwing out credits in your patter is one solution. This idea of saying 'So and so cme up with the cool thing, here let me show it to you.' This can work sometimes, with some presentations. However, personally, I find this to be awkward in performance, and even off putting to an audience. They usually wont pay attention to those important crediting, and also often just wont care. Also, as I said, it an be off putting. When your showing them something, they want to see what YOU have to offer. Not you showing them what someone else has done. Unfortunately this thinking is kind unique to magic. Amateur performers in other arts are more than welcomed by their audience to perform others work, and often encouraged to. And a performer, even some kid sitting on the grass at school with his friends and a guitar, can easily, and naturally work a credit into what they are doing. Of course, they usually don't even have to as everyone recognizes the songs. Even in a stage show, where on COULD have a program, it would seem weird if it included a list of the illusions he performed, along with who designed them credited. For some reason, with magic, over other performance arts, the audience would be far more likely to loose respect for what the magician just did. They can look at it and just say, "oh, he just bought all these props that do the tricks for him. He didn't even come up with how to do them, someone else did that for him." Now, I really don't know what is the "right" thing to do. I don't know how work in crediting an effect into my performances. And why stop there? In a band performance, they credit all of the different players for their contribution. If they bring in someone for one song they get special mention. So, if I'm going to credit the creator of an effect, what about the creators of the techniques I used within the effect? Many of the techniques used deserve just as much credit as the routine itself. Looking at almost every other performance, they tend to work crediting in somewhere. Even if it's not said right up front, they are made available to the audience in some form or another. Now, looking at a dancer though, they don't go around crediting every move they use, and the originator of said moves. Also, an amateur dance performance, with not program, and such, don't always give their choreographer credit for the dance. Mind you, it's easier at the end of a performance like that to just thank one choreographer, compared to who knows how many effects you'd have to credit after a single performance. So, what do you guys think? What do you do for the purposes of "crediting" creators? I know we go so far as to rag on people on youtube for not crediting an effect in the description of the video. We seem to think that in that scenario, it matters if it looks like the performer is taking credit for the effect, not just the performance. Of course we could just all only do original material, but good luck with that.
"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one."
I won't forget you Robert. |
JackScratch Inner circle 2151 Posts |
Magic can be enjoyed in a variety of mediums, but it only really has it's intended effect live. An artist, a creator, can not perform live for everyone, not even for most people. Less so on the subject of close up magic. Magic is about moments between people. If you subscribe to the very popular, even hotly argued subject, of magic being about the effects(tricks), then yes, just cover artists. If, on the other hand, like myself and a few others, you can appreciate that the effects (trick) is the single least important part of a magicians performance, then no, we are so very much more. This does not, in any way, lessen the great works of the many creators out there.
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Mr. Mystoffelees Inner circle I haven't changed anyone's opinion in 3623 Posts |
Well put!
Also known, when doing rope magic, as "Cordini"
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gdw Inner circle 4884 Posts |
Quote:
On 2009-03-18 00:28, JackScratch wrote: Yes, in a lot of ways, the important part of ANY entertainer is the entertainer themselves. You want them to remember YOU more than the tricks you did, or the songs you sang. But this does not mean that the songs writer should not be credited. Why is this different with magic?
"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one."
I won't forget you Robert. |
gdw Inner circle 4884 Posts |
I think I will link to the other one, as it seems to have more discussion:
http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewt......um=27&12
"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one."
I won't forget you Robert. |
Ben Train Inner circle Erdnase never had 4639 Posts |
First:
I've never liked the "remember you more then the magic". Nope, not for me. I want them to remember me due to the force of my personality: my charm (or lack thereof), my sense of humor, my stunning good looks, etc. And I equally want them to remember the magic, maybe even let that be the first thought, because of the magic. When I'm doing magic I want that to be the strongest moment- I want it to be something deeply personal. If I do a trick with a sugar packet I want them to think about the magic next time they order a coffee. Sure I want them to talk about me, but I want the focus on the magic. Obviously, sometimes, we can't do that. Shucks. And, yes, I think most of us are a cover band when we perform. And a ****ty one at that. Ben
If you're reading this you're my favourite magician.
Check out www.TorontoMagicCompany.com for upcoming shows, and instagram.com/train.ben for god knows what! |
Payne Inner circle Seattle 4571 Posts |
Quote:
On 2009-03-17 21:58, gdw wrote: False premise. Most singers don't sing their own songs. They are written for them by professional songwriters. Most comics tell jokes written by comedy writers. Nearly every actor speaks words written by unseen or long dead playwrights and Symphonies play works written by equally ancient and decomposing composers. So magicians are far from being "more than in any other art, performers of other peoples work". As for crediting the work of others. Do you see Jay Leno crediting his writers during his performance? Does Madonna tell you who the song writer was before each and every song? No? then why should magicians be required to accredit the creator of each effect before presenting it? Magicians only become cover bands when they simply mimic move per move word for word the actions of another performer. Tricks and sleights are the medium in which we work. they are our Paint and canvas. It is how we express ourselves through our chosen medium that makes us artists, craftsmen or outright hacks.
"America's Foremost Satirical Magician" -- Jeff McBride.
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