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Close.Up.Dave Inner circle Behind you! 2956 Posts |
What's your opinion? Is it just me or does it seem like outlawing busking (of any kind) goes against free speech? If you perform only with the option to tip and actually pay taxes on earned money with the proper permits, shouldn't that be entirely legal?
I've always wanted to busk but I live in Chicago and it's hard to go 3 feet without Daley charging or taxing you. Pretty soon there'll be a standing around tax. From what it seems, there are people who are uncomfortable with buskers and if only a few people complain then busking is outlawed. Either that or society is moving into an even less socially diverse period and busking is becoming a thing of the past. Street markets and performers have been around for hundreds and even thousands of years in all ranges of human culture and it now seems like political correctness and complainers are in charge. Am I wrong? Does this all boil down to land ownership and controlling the flow of money? |
The Great Zoobini Elite user Boulder, Colorado 443 Posts |
Being from Boulder, it's pretty hard to relate seeing as it's always been legal here.
There's a good video called "STREET PERFORMANCE - A Short History" featuring Steven Baird and the filmed arrest of Robert Turley at the link below. Steven goes on to say, "(Busking) has been going on since the dawn of time and will continue forever"...or somesuch. Unfortunately, the video is in the Real format which has severely limited it's viewing. http://www.buskercentral.com/video.php#documentary
Meet you in Busker Alley
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Chance Inner circle 1385 Posts |
Hi David, It's very encouraging to see new faces entering the discussion!
No, it's not just you. Busking is protected Free Speech under the 1st Amendment plain and simple. It is therfore considered an inalienable right, on equal par with all the other freedoms we take for granted as American citizens. But that's just it. We take them for granted. Busking is entirely legal, in every respect, and never let anyone tell you otherwise. We buskers are some of the last truly free people in our society. We are the rebels and iconoclasts, the last of the free thinkers and doers. It's a proud place to be. The taxes and bylaws you mention are there only because the people allow them. You can't blame powerful people for trying to grab up even more. But you *can* blame a free society that forgets where it came from. |
gallagher Inner circle 1168 Posts |
The word `Busker', is probably derived from the Basque word `buscar';..meaning, "looking for a space". That's what's the art is about, in my opinion. Coming and going,.. and flowing with times. The only thing constant in life, is change. It's the Busker's Life.
I've seen towns ban shows,.. I've seen the same towns PAY artists to come back, years later. Live the life,... roll with the flow. Flexiblity,.. movement should be our biggest strength. The battles won or lost aren't worth the war. give it easy,.. and it comes back easier, gallagher |
Bill Palmer Eternal Order Only Jonathan Townsend has more than 24312 Posts |
Just to refresh our memories, let's take a look at what the Constitution actually says:
Quote:
Amendment I The First Amendment states that Congress shall make no law abridging the freedom of speech. However, if you look further down the bill of rights, you run into two others that modify this. Quote:
Amendment IX In this case, "the people" refers to all of the citizens of the United States and other people who live within its borders. If a group of "the people," such as a city, county or other group decides that there shall be no busking in their sovereign territory, they may have the right to limit it without respect to the first amendment, because they are NOT the congress of the United States. In fact, the next Amendment actually may support this. Quote:
Amendment X Unless there is an amendment or other federal law specifically prohibiting the states, cities or other groups from limiting speech within their territory, then the first amendment may not apply. I'm not a constitutional law expert; however, it's important to remember exactly what we think we are defending. The anti-busking laws are written with the 10th amendment and possibly the 9th amendment in mind. All of the applications of the first amendment to local ordinances and statutes are based upon case law or precedents, and not necessarily upon the Constitution, itself. This is why cities and states can have licenses and permits for these activities.
"The Swatter"
Founder of CODBAMMC My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups." www.cupsandballsmuseum.com |
Chance Inner circle 1385 Posts |
Bill, in order for your claim to hold you would have to ignore (literally) thousands of precedents. Law is by nature a living thing, and it requires that defintions and clarifications be built up over time. The totality of those cases and the various higher court interpretations, laboriously built up with someone else's blood, time and treasure, come down to 'us' -- those in the 'present', when ever that might be.
Just as my own case will gho forward and be considered with all other case law that came before, whether I win or lose. The Consitution itself falls into this same category of "living document". It was left vague by the Framers quite intentionally, so that future inhabitants could figure out for themselves how best to design their main body of laws. But they did leave us with a very solid groundwork in our Constitution, Bill of Rights and Declaration of Independance. And don't leave out the personal journals and letters of the Founding Fathers, which give us their full insights and motivations. Anyway, the bottom line is every statement I have made is correct if taken in context. We don't live in 1790. Laws evolve over time, just as societies do. I know you mean well, but if you sincerely believe that a city can ban busking because you think it is within their legal rights to do so... then I humbly ask you to step back before you confuse anyone here that might take your words for granted. Deleting your posts would be even better. But you are wrong in any case, and it's too important an issue to leave bad info hanging in public like that. |
Bob Sanders Grammar Supervisor Magic Valley Ranch, Clanton, Alabama 20504 Posts |
In law school you'll learn three words that legally limit what you think is free speech. The control of "Time, Place and Manner" seems to belong to society rather than any individual. I think it makes sense.
The right to "not associate" should get the same protection as the right "to associate". Privacy is indeed personal property. Personally, I think unwanted "ambush magic" hurts us all. There certainly is a right to "not associate". It should be honored. Staying put at a location that is not interrupting the traffic path, attention or vision of others is a different story. However, I see too many who are actually abusing the rights of others by blocking, interrupting, and harassing them. That should be treated as the crime that it is. It is theft of personal property. This may sound strange coming from a graduate university marketing professor. However, meeting consumers' needs at a profit is far from ambush magic. Ambush magic is abuse. It abuses the rights of others to "not associate" and without explanation. Coming to you is absolutely a different situation. That is an overt effort to "associate" and an invitation. The place to do such magic is in the market where "time, place and manner" allow it. We rarely allow live horses, bee hives or loose monkeys in restaurants. Owning the restaurant does not change the restriction. There is no loss of dignity in playing by the rules. Instead, it may be a professional requirement. Bob Sanders Magic By Sander |
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