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rickreation Veteran user 343 Posts |
Hello all!
I have been seriously considering purchasing Jheff's "JE4". 4th Dimensional Telepathy and it's variations have been, along with Q & A, among my favorite effects in mentalism since I first read Phil Goldstein (Max Maven's) variation (I believe it was called Middle Telepathy) in the Color Series. I have read and reread Bob Cassidy's Journey into the 4th Dimension, as well as Artful Mentalism of course, and so you'd think I'd have enought 4DT for a life time. However, it sounds like Jheff has done a lot of work (improvement?) on this routine and I was curious to know if any of you were able to read this? I am particularly interested in what contributions/improvements/etc. he makes to the routine, and also what insight he has on the performance of this routine and mentalism in general. If it weren't for my extremely limited budget as a volunteer this summer this $100 limited release would be a no brainer, but as funds are currently "dry" I need to prioritize my purchases. Thank you all for the insight, and I look forward to reading your replies. My best, R² (P.S. Any other recommendation for books on this and similar routines (e.g. Telepathy Plus - which reminds me I need to buy Stuart Cumberland's book too!) would be appreciated.) |
Seth speaks Inner circle New Mexico 1249 Posts |
I probably don't know all the versions of this, but I know a few, and Jheff's is my absolute favorite. I will admit I have not performed this yet, but his book is very clear and fully illustrated with photos of him doing it, so it is easy to see how it plays. He beautifully streamlines the effect, so that it is a bit simpler for an audience to follow. It is also easier to do, and gets rid of a few inconsistencies and tricky setups that you are probably familiar with. He also discusses how to easily handle several unlikely problems that may come up. If you want to perform this effect, or something similar, I think you can't do much better than Jheff's. 4DT is a wonderful routine, and JE4 is a definite improvement, to my mind at least. It's a terrific investment--a highly practical, audience tested interpretation of this classic effect. Also, he had limited quantities printed, and I think once they're gone, they're gone. Highly recommended.
Seth |
LLL Inner circle 1574 Posts |
Not got or read the book, but have seen JHEFF performing it at the magic castle. Came across brilliantly, certainly was well recieved by the rest of the audience.
The basic tool for the manipulation of reality is the manipulation of words. If you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use the words.
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Sven Rygh Inner circle Oslo, Norway. 1945 Posts |
I really am too lazy and not so competent to writing good, structured reviews, like what among other's my friend Mormonyoyoman does
Let my comment this time be in the form of an email I sent Jheff about 6 mnths ago about his product. Some of it is edited, not to reveal Jheff's methods. Quote:
Jheff As it probably comes through in what I wrote, I don't find Jheff's take on the 3 envelopes effect very practical, - at least not for me. What not is mentioned, is that Jheff mention in the documentation that he did this routine at The Magic Castle and fooled people "in the know" Another thing I didn't mention, is that this documentation is in the, now so popular, "Priced to keep the curious and secret seachers away" category I advise you to compare Jheff's documentation with the original, other classics, and not at least Bob Cassidy's many takes on this.(See Cassidy's treaty on The 3 Envelopes, priced at 30$) If you look for a trick to fool your buddies in the magic club with, and do have 100$ you don't know what to use on, Jheff's routine might interest you. Sven
WWW.SVENRYGH.NO
"Keep it as simple as possible, - but no simpler" http://www.svenrygh.no/sven-rygh/presse/nrk-forst-og-sist/ http://www.svenrygh.no/video.html |
Magical Dimensions Inner circle 5001 Posts |
This sounds like something that could really be used. I am always looking for a better Fourth Dimensional routine, because I think it is one of the most powerful things a mentalist can do.
Ray |
Sven Rygh Inner circle Oslo, Norway. 1945 Posts |
Oh, - and I forgot,
Even though the documentation is autographed, numbered, and is of a limited release, it comes with neither a gold stamp nor an embossed logo or anything like that. Sven
WWW.SVENRYGH.NO
"Keep it as simple as possible, - but no simpler" http://www.svenrygh.no/sven-rygh/presse/nrk-forst-og-sist/ http://www.svenrygh.no/video.html |
Torkova Regular user Astoria, NY 192 Posts |
Sven,
Thanks for a very informative response. The 3 envelope test ( I use another simpler version of Cassidy's) is my favorite and I've been doing it for a couple of years now. However, I don't recall him insisting on giving the cards/envelopes back. On his original video he does it for the first one but then admits he rarely does it for the others. My experience is the same as yours and probably for anyone else who actually performs 4DT; that no one cares about the cards and envelopes once they are opened and read. I've found that even giving the first billet back to the spectator is rarely desired by them so I rarely do it. Best regards, Torkova |
Sven Rygh Inner circle Oslo, Norway. 1945 Posts |
Torkova
Quote:
I don't recall him insisting on giving the cards/envelopes back Well, if not insisting, he at least advises to(in his book), and as mentioned, an advice I do not follow Sven
WWW.SVENRYGH.NO
"Keep it as simple as possible, - but no simpler" http://www.svenrygh.no/sven-rygh/presse/nrk-forst-og-sist/ http://www.svenrygh.no/video.html |
rickreation Veteran user 343 Posts |
No Gold stamp? No gold emboss?
I spit at your limited release! In all seriousness though, I think having the cards handed back, or at least verified, adds a logical disconnect. Some might call it running when you're not chased, but I think it helps when people are backtracking after the show. Just to keep the mystery alive. My best, Rick |
Lior Inner circle 1961 Posts |
I have never seen Jeff's routine so what I have to say is just in general.
I have found out that many people are trying to "improve" things that don't need to be improved. Most of the time the improvment are bad... If you are doing the 4DT and you are happy and your AUDIENCE are happy , thenyou need anythibg new. If you are doing it and your audience are not happy, then you are doing something wrong, because there are many others that frick their audience. Ask a performer who does it for real audience. He will give you all the answers. Lior
The Lior Touch
https://1amagic.com/ PEA Dave Lederman Award 2009 PEA Dunninger Award 2001 Life Time Achivmeant IUPA 2016 |
Torkova Regular user Astoria, NY 192 Posts |
Well said, Lior.
Torkova |
rickreation Veteran user 343 Posts |
Quote:
Ask a performer who does it for real audience. He will give you all the answers. Like... Jheff? |
rickreation Veteran user 343 Posts |
Oh and I gotta add, Sven, I always enjoy your reviews and comments (although I thought your "Gold Stamping" remark was a bit sophomoric), but I ought to mention that The Magic Castle is not a magic club, although it hosts one. The majority of audiences there are "upper class" lay people.
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Silvertongue Inner circle One day I will die leaving behind 2426 Posts |
Quote:
On 2009-06-07 15:53, rickreation wrote: I also saw him perform this at the Castle. Brilliant...
For as long as space exists,
And living beings remain in cyclic existence, For that long, may I too remain, to dispel the sufferings of the world. -Shantideva Engaging in the Conduct of a Bodhisattva |
Sven Rygh Inner circle Oslo, Norway. 1945 Posts |
Quote:
On 2009-06-07 16:28, rickreation wrote: I know, put there is also crowded with magicians among the audience. Sven Thanks for the kind words, btw
WWW.SVENRYGH.NO
"Keep it as simple as possible, - but no simpler" http://www.svenrygh.no/sven-rygh/presse/nrk-forst-og-sist/ http://www.svenrygh.no/video.html |
rickreation Veteran user 343 Posts |
I've decided. I'm definitely getting this.
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Lior Inner circle 1961 Posts |
Quote:
On 2009-06-07 15:53, rickreation wrote: as I wrote: My post is in general. Ask someone that you know and get money for what he does. I don't know Jeff so well. I think he is an honest delear Lior
The Lior Touch
https://1amagic.com/ PEA Dave Lederman Award 2009 PEA Dunninger Award 2001 Life Time Achivmeant IUPA 2016 |
Tony Iacoviello Eternal Order 13151 Posts |
We all approach things differently, and while some aspects of some routines and methods are not necessary for some in their performing conditions, they may be necessary and important to others.
For me, in the parlor/small party environment, having the option of being able to return the envelopes and cards, or being able to leave them at the table when I leave is an important consideration. And while I do agree with my friends here who have stated that if something works, there is no reason to fix it, I also feel that having alternative methods and the ability to perform “themes” in a variety of performing conditions is important. I also feel that seeing how others have taken pieces in other directions can help inspire us to grow in our own work. These are the only reasons I really purchase anything in the magic and mentalism market. Having read the comments made here on this thread about the actual product, and removing personal opinion based on specific performance conditions and perception of the audience, it appears that Jheff has added additional options for this theme. His additions are important considerations for me, and I thank those who have posted here letting us know. This is definitely on my list of wants! Tony Iacoviello |
Jheff V.I.P. 402 Posts |
I thank Sven for sharing his thoughts on JE4. I know it doesn't suit his style and he feels it is overpriced. I certainly can't and won't argue with that opinion (it is his opinion, after all), but I'd like to step in and address some statements in the review that I feel are factually incorrect.
Those who have read my many reviews and essays know that I certainly discourage the "running while being chased" thinking, especially in mentalism. In this case, though, I WAS being "chased" and I made it a point to relate the story in the manuscript. You see, it's important to me to listen to my audiences afterward. When I first added 4DT to my act, I didn't return the billets. Like Sven, I didn't care because my audiences seemed not to care and the effect went over well. But, after some of my performances, when I overheard a discussion by, and were told by, laymen audience members (NOT magicians) about the one-ahead principle, I knew I had to alter the handling to allow for the return of the billets. I had to do this so that laymen could not backtrack easily. I can't say what type of audiences Sven performs for in Norway, but in California, there seems to be an uncomfortable amount of laymen who know the basic principles of mentalism. It's not a large percentage by any means, but it's more than it used to be thanks to the Internet and a certain masked individual. Sven also suggests that using a particular move on the first billet to gain information is limiting. You can certainly have a participant write down two pieces of information, perhaps three depending on your billet size. On the other hand, this routine was designed to be a shorter version of a standard Q&A act and, by its very nature, one would want only one piece of info at most for time purposes. If one wants to use a longer set, there are other Q&A routines. Therefore, under the conditions of this routine, one piece of info is not limiting at all, especially because what type of info you ask for is limited only by one's imagination. As to the high price, my reasons for such are in the very first paragraphs of my ad blurb. It was not priced high to keep out the merely curious, as Sven claims. It was priced high because it's currently part of my act and I don't plan on taking it out anytime soon. It's worth far more to me now than $100, plus I throw in a free 30 min. coaching call (which is usually longer because I have a hard time talking to anyone for just 30 minutes about mentalism). However, I respect Sven's opinion that it is overpriced and his reasons for it being such as certainly valid. Finally, the limited edition does not have a gold stamp or embossed logo. I apologize for making such a serious oversight that I understand will affect one's opinion of the material within. For those feel that this limited edition is not complete without them, I will cheerfully provide one or both upon request at no additional charge (except you may have to wait a bit for me to find them). In any case, for those who'd like to see me perform it, and are in the Los Angeles area, I'll be performing JE4 all this week at the Magic Castle from June 15-21. If you're not a member of the Castle but would like to come, please e-mail and I'll be happy to make arrangements.
Marketplace of the Mind PARIMENTAL, a 200 page exploration of a classic Martin Gardner principle, is now available!!
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Jamie D Inner circle Ontario, Canada 2292 Posts |
This souds great, I'm actualy planing on performing Bob cassidys routine from the artfull mentalisim next week. The only reason I havent performed it is because of what has all ready been posted, I was afraid of them knowing the one ahead. I've got my presentation down and am ready to take the plunge and am now quiet confident, but if all else fails this sounds quiet nice.
Daren
Twitter @darjames
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