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Paul Chosse V.I.P. 1955 - 2010 2389 Posts |
Who started the Triple Change Spellbound? The first one I saw/read was Scotty Yorks in his Lecture Notes from the '70's. It required sleeving. More work than I was willing to go to though. I varied his routine, adapting it to a tee shirt presentation, and fooled a few folks. Should have published, I guess, but I didn't - I think it still novel enough to warrant inclusion in the literature. Also, I gave the presentation some thought and came up with a story line that makes sense (at least I think so...). You start with one coin, sleeveless, do five changes, and end, apparently, clean. The story is about shady coin dealers and the value of foriegn currency, and trick coins with sliding panels for hiding things, and magic school, and, and, and,... Anyway, I'm wondering what to do with the thing, and who really started the triple change and when, if it predates the York reference. Also, has there ever been a reasonable presentation, and maybe I just missed it? Changing precious metals never made sense with a half and a penny (I know, I have a silver penny AND a gold half), there was no real ending to most sequences, etc. Anyone?
Best, PSC
"You can't steal a gift..." Dizzy Gillespie
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Jason Wethington Special user Orlando, Fl 615 Posts |
I believe the York reference is the correct one as far as being the originator of the effect. Gary Kurtz has a nice presentation for the effect. Kurtz's presentation was along the lines of a chinese coin being a wishing coin. It represented what the person holding it was thinking. He thought about England it changes to an english penny. He thinks of his freind who gave him the wishing coin it changes back to chinese, he thinks about going to America (he says "home" during the presentation) it changes to a half dollar, so on and so on.
I would imagine David Neighbors has some work on it as well. Although admittedly I don't own any of his work. I agree there is no ending. It has to end but there is always the feeling that it could go on forever. I use the Kurtz presentation if I perform the effect. I am looking forward to hearing more about your routine. Best, Jason |
Geoff Latta Regular user New York 158 Posts |
I read the York routine back in the '70's as well, and devised a routine which I did around New York for a long time. I believe Kurtz saw it at one of the New York Magic Symposiums. My routine was actually a quadruple, or a triple with a kicker, if you prefer. I had a large, old-looking chinese hook coin left over from some dealer item, and I'd do my triple routine, ending with one last change to the hook coin. Fried a lot of people with that; the triple used a lot of backclipping, transfers and edge-grip work, so the hands looked very empty and then this big (bigger than a dollar -- but not a 3 incher) crusty looking old chinese coin would be there. There were varied presentations. Should have published it as well.
Best, Geoff
"There is a thin line between genius and insanity. I have erased this line." --Oscar Levant
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Paul Chosse V.I.P. 1955 - 2010 2389 Posts |
Hi Geoff!
I'll show you mine if you show me yours! Seriously, why not "publish" them here, just for the record? Might be a good excercise in routine development, since there seems to be a renewed interest in Spellbound effects... My "hideout" was very simple, and the changes were, as well. I was trying to take all the "handling" OUT, so the thing looked really magical. Scottys' was too "handley" for me, and I was working in clubs a lot, frequently 3/4 surrounded, so angles were a consideration. Sounds like you took a different approach - it would be interesting to compare. Up to you... Best, PSC P.S. funny how few people even mention Scotty in the development of all the new Spellbound routines - guess he didn't sell many copies of those notes...
"You can't steal a gift..." Dizzy Gillespie
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Geoff Latta Regular user New York 158 Posts |
Hi Paul,
That's an interesting idea, but I'd have to tip a whole bunch of unpublished moves to do it. The description would also be too long and require a lot of illustrations because of that. It was also the kind routine that I varied a lot; the one with all the fancy concealments was mostly done for magicians. A simpler one, closer to the Vernon routine (but with you-know-what giving you some very clean changes) was what I often used for laymen. I'll be happy to show them to you when I see you, though. Going to be at the LVMI/Coinvention in September? Ha. Scotty's handling wasn't "handley" enough for me. Different strokes. I don't think that Scotty gets enough credit for a lot of things. One of my core routines for a long time, CopSilBrass, is based on his general methodology for the trick, though the handling and effect sequence is vastly different. That set of notes is one of coin magic's great little secrets. I believe Vernon also had a straight Spellbound with the dingus, just to sneak in a couple of fooler changes for guys who knew the standard routine. I think I saw it in one of Fulves' mags. Best, Geoff
"There is a thin line between genius and insanity. I have erased this line." --Oscar Levant
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Paul Chosse V.I.P. 1955 - 2010 2389 Posts |
Hi Geoff,
On 2003-05-27 12:05, Geoff Latta wrote: [quote]Hi Paul, That's an interesting idea, but I'd have to tip a whole bunch of unpublished moves to do it. The description would also be too long and require a lot of illustrations because of that.[quote] ***Fair enough, but I'll bug you when I meet you!*** [quote]It was also the kind routine that I varied a lot; the one with all the fancy concealments was mostly done for magicians. A simpler one, closer to the Vernon routine (but with you-know-what giving you some very clean changes) was what I often used for laymen. I'll be happy to show them to you when I see you, though. Going to be at the LVMI/Coinvention in September?[quote] ***Yep, I'll be there! Thanks for the offer to tip. I know what you mean about the magic foolers vs performance material*** [quote] Scotty's handling wasn't "handley" enough for me. Different strokes. I don't think that Scotty gets enough credit for a lot of things. One of my core routines for a long time, CopSilBrass, is based on his general methodology for the trick, though the handling and effect sequence is vastly different. That set of notes is one of coin magic's great little secrets.[quote] *** You're right - I mentioned elsewhere that they should be one of the cornerstones of a WORKING coin library, with Bobo, Stars of Magic, and something from Tony. Funny, I worked on the cop/sil/brass too, and his 2cop/1sil with and without the extras*** Best, PSC
"You can't steal a gift..." Dizzy Gillespie
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David Neighbors V.I.P. 4911 Posts |
Hi Gang,
As Far As I know It's Scotty's! I Have 2 handleings, One I put in print In 1978 In my book Coinjuring! I also have A 5 way spellbound for sell! Also not in print yet Are A 7 way spellbound, And A 10 way spell bound! I will be showing these off at The COINvention it you would like to see them! Best David Neighbors The Coinjurer |
James Harrison Special user Ontario, Canada 762 Posts |
I would LOVE to see them David. (Just don't think my funds are going to let me venture out to the west coast this year.)
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Curtis Kam V.I.P. same as you, plus 3 and enough to make 3498 Posts |
I second (or third) the props to Scotty York. He was an obvious inspiration for me, given the "New YORK Spellbound" on "Palms of Steel 1" and the C/S/B routine (which I've since changed a bit) on "Palms 3". Funny how many didn't get the pun in the title of the spellbound routine. I did my best to credit Scotty York in the explanation phase.
Does anyone know if the York lecture notes predate the appearances of this material in Genii? I also wonder, wasn't Sol Stone working with wintuple spellbounds, especially one-handed versions, around that time? Or what about Harvey Rosenthal?
Is THAT a PALMS OF STEEL 5 Banner I see? YARRRRGH! Please visit The Magic Bakery
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martysh Special user Greenville,SC 527 Posts |
Scotty gave a special lecture in Greenville SC on August 20, 1977 for a closeup convention Jerry Mentzer and I had. The special lecture notes refer to his "lecture book" that preceeded it. I only have his take on the aspirin tin in Genii June 79. It would be my guess that the lecture was before any publishing in Genii.
Marty Shapiro |
Geoff Latta Regular user New York 158 Posts |
I have the book, "Scott York" "Coins" in front of me. The date on the intro is "March, 1975". Will try to look up the Genii entries when I get time. Maybe Richard can lend a hand here. Richard? I mean, "Mr. Kaufman?"
Best, Geoff
"There is a thin line between genius and insanity. I have erased this line." --Oscar Levant
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dmk_kirkland Loyal user 256 Posts |
Come on Geoff, tip them please, please. Seriously Geoff, I keep hearing about this book of yours. Get that Kaufman guy to write/publish it.
Whenever you do decide to tip that mitt of your's I gotta (latta) feeling there will be a tidal wave of stuff (cards and coins) I'm going to be hit with. I'll be a month in the bedroom before anyone sees me. When I come out it'll be to yell "I did it! I finally backclipped a Jumbo Coin!!"
Cheers,
David |
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