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Michael Messing Inner circle Knoxville, TN 1817 Posts |
Great perspective, Jack and Tom. I can't argue with that logic at all.
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MagicB1S Inner circle Knoxville Tenn. 1039 Posts |
Scott,
Another Great post. When I started I was 11 years old, My Uncle was a Magician in NYC and I went to his house and watched his practice sessions day in and day out. Before Long I was going to his shows and watching as a spectator. After a year or so I started performing One effect in his show. This went on for another year or so before I was confident enough to go out on my own... so to speak. I was 13 when I performed my first show on my own, If it wasn't for my uncle and his patience to work with me I wouldn't have had that mentor to help me learn this incredible art. I am now 38 yrs old and I am doing with my kids what my uncle done for me. Like you said we had it tough Back then we had to travel to learn what we learned, these days there is NO excuse. The Internet is in Almost everyone's home. But it seems everyone wants to make that Fast Buck and not learn to love the Art Before they start to perform. Keep the Blog coming Scott It is a joy to read
"There are Tricks To All Trades.... My Trade is all Tricks"
"An amature practices until he gets it right. A Professional Practices until he can't get it wrong" www.Themagicchest.webs.com bobswislosky@yahoo.com |
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mormonyoyoman Inner circle I dug 5,000 postholes, but I have only 2440 Posts |
I have noticed all my life, that those who want something regulated or governed, mean they want it "governed MY way."
From power-hungry people, may God protect us. *jeep! --Grandpa
#ShareGoodness #ldsconf
--Grandpa Chet |
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Steve_Mollett Inner circle Eh, so I've made 3006 Posts |
Amen.
Author of: GARROTE ESCAPES
The absurd is the essential concept and the first truth. - Albert Camus |
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Bill Palmer Eternal Order Only Jonathan Townsend has more than 24312 Posts |
I came into this discussion late. I would like to answer this with a couple of observations.
1) When I was about 16 years old, a fellow came into the magic shop where I worked, and pointed to one of the books behind the counter. He asked if I had the book and if I had read it. I told him that I did, in fact, have the book and, of course, I had read it. He invited me to dinner. Then we went back to his hotel room and jammed cards for a while. He showed me a wonderful trick that I had never seen before. I asked him what it was called. He said, "You know this trick. It's in that book that you said you read. It's called 'Twisting the Aces.' " He then showed me a bunch of stuff that looked miraculous. Didn't explain it, just showed it to me. I asked where I could learn it. He said, "It's in a book that most of us call 'Erdnase.' The title is The Expert at the Card Table." That man was Harry Riser. Yes, he took me down a peg. I needed it. I learned from that experience that you don't bluster and lie about your skills, especially if you don't have any. Later, Harry did teach me some things I needed to know. But it could have gone the other way. 2) I have a friend in Dresden, Germany. During the old days, before the reunification, if you wanted to be a magician, you had to pass a series of examinations before an artist's examination board. You could belong to the local magic circle, but that did not give you permission to perform (even free) at parties for your friends or to charge a fee. In order to perform for gatherings and/or to charge a fee, you needed to pass the series of examinations. My friend is a nuclear physicist. He told me that all of the magic books that were printed in East Germany during the cold war were junk. While he was working on a project in Russia, he found that there was a copy of the Bobo book at one of the libraries a few towns over, so he had it sent to the university where he was doing his work. He laboriously hand copied about 100 pages of that book, which he showed me when I visited him a few months ago. Now, he performs with a troupe of magical entertainers from Dresden, and he also does private shows. Freedom is wonderful. If you have the drive to learn and to excel, you will do just that. 3) There has never been a dearth of books about magic. Many of us learned by books. Since roughly 1976, there have been excellent videos produced. Many of us learned through those, as well. Figure that if it's free, it's worth what you pay for it. 4) Even if you are from East Armpit, Arkansas, there are still places to learn magic. There is the Chavez School, for example. 5) Magic is not a life-critical profession like medicine, private investigation, law enforcement, or law. It's an art form. You can't really regulate art. On the bandstand, nobody really cares whether you went to Berklee, the Juilliard, or any other conservatory. All they care about is whether you can play. 6) Regarding the "price cutters" and other bad magicians -- they thin their own herd. If your main competition is a "30 minutes in, 30 minutes out" magician who performs for $85.00, you have two choices. You can leave all the bargain shows to him. Or you can set up your own competing show. Cut his price by five bucks. Do it under a secret identity, though, because until he is gone, the other guys in your area will hate you. Or you can set up a local "magicians union," and use it to set a performing scale. We had a similar thing in Houston a while back. There was a local radio announcer who was a really bad magician. He advertised his "show" on the radio. For $75.00 he would come to your office and either levitate your boss (or other person in the office) or saw them in half. He had free advertising, and he also got free ads on television through a cooperative bit he did with a TV station. He was AWFUL. Every time he performed, it was a magic lesson for the people in the audience. More people learned how to do the MAK Magic volunteer sawing and the Super-X from this guy than you would believe. He eventually moved out of town when a radio station in Las Vegas hired him. The people in Vegas wouldn't put up with that stuff. As far as BA programs for magic -- Doug Henning got one from somewhere in Canada. His "mentors" for the course were Vernon and Marçeau. He studied a lot of theatre arts, as well.
"The Swatter"
Founder of CODBAMMC My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups." www.cupsandballsmuseum.com |
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Scott F. Guinn Inner circle "Great Scott!" aka "Palms of Putty" & "Poof Daddy G" 6586 Posts |
Quote:
On 2009-07-31 22:19, MagicB1S wrote: Thanks for the kind words. They are much appreciated.
"Love God, laugh more, spend more time with the ones you love, play with children, do good to those in need, and eat more ice cream. There is more to life than magic tricks." - Scott F. Guinn
My Lybrary Page |
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sirbrad Inner circle PA 2096 Posts |
Quote:
On 2009-07-07 02:40, lou serrano wrote: I don't really believe you are ready for the answer to that question yet.
The great trouble with magicians is the fact that they believe when they have bought a certain trick or piece of apparatus, and know the method or procedure, that they are full-fledged mystifiers. -- Harry Houdini
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sirbrad Inner circle PA 2096 Posts |
(Since you have been told you are not ready your entire life I am just keeping the cycle going.)
The great trouble with magicians is the fact that they believe when they have bought a certain trick or piece of apparatus, and know the method or procedure, that they are full-fledged mystifiers. -- Harry Houdini
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Dreadnought Special user Athens, Georgia 836 Posts |
My point is, if there are no standards to determine if and when someone is "A professional" and no one wants any standards then don't complain. One person's standards may not the same as someone else's. And, I haven't seen anyone give "The criteria" for professional. Most people just moan and nothing else. I agree with Bill natural attrition will take over.
Peace
"Ave Maria gratia plena Dominus tecum..." Scott Would you do anything for the person you love? |
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Thom Bliss Loyal user Southern California 271 Posts |
Sure there are hobbyist athletes and pros. But no kid gets a basketball or baseball for Christmas and becomes a pro by New Years.
There are bad musicians who may be able to get a gig or two. But when they’re bad, the public knows that they are bad musicians, not that music in general is bad or worthless. I’m not so sure that much of the public that sees a bad magical performance can make the same kind of distinction. There’s not much we can do about the kid (or adult) who gets a magic kit for Christmas and is a seasoned pro, the “world's greatest,” by New Years. Except, of course, do so, so, so much better. Philosophers have much the same problem. A person drinks too many beers, thinks his thoughts are profound. So do his drunken companions. Then he sobers up, but still thinks what he said was profound -- and philosophical. And then there’s the other problem: the public, or a large part of it, doesn’t know a good philosophical theory from a bad one, or even a genuine philosophical theory from some goofy idea somebody decided to say was philosophy because it makes it sound so much more important and intellectual. (And the wannabe philosopher and his followers don’t like it if you point out a problem or two with his vision of the world -- after all, it is HIS vision of the world, who are you to say that it is wrong?) And if the public doesn’t see enough first-rate magic, it won’t be able to tell a good performance from a bad one – or even tell the difference between magic and camera or computer-imaging tricks. (Don’t get me started on what passes for a “philosophical essay” within the magic community.) There are very few college courses in magic, but there are courses in acting, directing, costuming, other theater arts, public speaking, writing, art, etc. (To say nothing of marketing, advertising, salesmanship, accounting, etc.) Of course, if you hang around actors too long, you’ll find a few that think that magicians are talentless hacks and that “Citizen Kane” was a work of pure genius. Lincoln never went to law school (or even college). He became a lawyer by “reading the law,” that is, by having a mentor. That was the accepted way. And people learned to be lawyers, not just people who knew law (which seems to be what law schools want to produce). Maybe we need more apprentices and mentors in magic. Of course the over-night wonder is much too great to be a mere apprentice. And, of course, we need to educate the public about the difference between a good magical performance and a bad one. And one way of doing that is by doing good. After all, if every musical performance we heard was bad, we probably wouldn't realize that there is good music. Thom . |
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Kevinr Inner circle 1854 Posts |
Quote:
On 2009-07-07 02:40, lou serrano wrote: Lou so TRUE! So many kids out there wanting to learn and some are dang good but then we scare them away saying.. "Hey you can't do that yet!" SAYS WHO!?! I know an old guy who started magic at 45 and in one year is FULL TIME.. You know what he is pretty good! Could use some work but he does what he know pretty dang well! |
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jtmorris Regular user Canada 158 Posts |
The question of when does a magician become a professional is a great question. It is often said that "Is it that you do shows for money, full time.". If so, how many show and for how much money? And is this really related to skill level? I have met full time magicians who are not very good. But they succeed well enough to make a living. I also have met guys that only do it part time that are far more professional in conduct an skill than those doing it full time.
It is very similar to a discussion I had with a friend. At what point do you become a "Master Magician"? When can you honestly use that in your marketing strategy? Where is the bar for something like that? Obviously if you call yourself that, you must live up to the title. But we were discussing that this (much like the word professional) is often just tacked on to someone's promotional material to sell their crappy act.
"Looks like a camera trick!" "I had to watch it 5 times before I...still didn't figure it out" - COINTUM-LEAP
Unbelievable, visual, simple, and motivated mix of cards and coins. COINTUM-LEAP |
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gnosis Regular user 110 Posts |
I understand that it must be frustrating for established entertainers to see some ignorant, arrogant kids who haven't paid their dues billing themselves as "professionals" and not performing up to snuff. It's an embarrassment to everyone involved, tarnishes magic's good name, and can indirectly affect the earnings of other hard working magicians.
And yet I must say that I've seen plenty of true professionals (in every sense of the word), sometimes very big name professionals, and even people who are highly respected for many in this forum, who are simply awful. They've paid their dues. They know their stuff. They've been working for decades, in all sorts of venues and in front of all sorts of audiences, written dozens of books, etc.. And yet they couldn't entertain their way out of a paper bag. Their personas are so dry, their delivery so wooden, their jokes so hackneyed. They may demonstrate impressive technical proficiency, but watching a kid dancing with a D'Lite would be more interesting than their routines. I'm not going to name names. Suffice it to say that decades of experience, mountains of knowledge, and name recognition are not necessarily enough to make someone a good entertainer. These professionals are doing more to tarnish magic's good name than the amateurs who pretend to be professionals. At least the latter are only likely to ever perform a handful of restaurant or party gigs in their home towns. But the awful big name professionals could ruin magic in the eyes of millions. I don't know how many times I've seen some incredibly underwhelming routine on Letterman or [insert name of famous talk show here]. And it's not just me who's underwhelmed. They may get some polite applause, but the audience is rarely ecstatic after seeing these dull routines and deliveries. The tactless amateurs pretending to be professionals might be a nuisance, but it's with the real professionals that the reputation of magic rests. It's through seeing their work that most people will get exposed to magic. If magic is to thrive, it's they who need to make a good impression. Let's not try to shift the responsibility for this to a handful of bragging, snot-nosed kids. Their impact on magic is negligible, if that. |
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