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praetoritevong Regular user Sydney, Australia 139 Posts |
These are my thoughts. I agree with pearljamjeff's last sentence in the post above - "Blown Away" does not equal "Lasting Memory", nor does it mean that that's the strongest reaction you can get. I can walk up to a couple on a street, punch the boyfriend in the face, and run away. Unless the girlfriend happens to know karate and catches me and beats me up, chances are, she'll be "Blown away" by what I just did. This extremely direct action is not difficult to achieve. But chances are, she's also "Blown away" by the boyfriend as a person, whom she loves. Which will be more significant for her?
One of the main reasons mentalism attracted me so much is that I couldn't help but think that you can do better than that reaction. We have this wonderful gift, a gift to create an amazing experience for the spectator, and I've always felt that for me at least, mentalism came closest to the goal of achieving this. I guess what I'm saying is this: To achieve that sort of experience, the type which can change a spectator's thinking, which will be remembered twenty years from now, you have to look beyond what is purely impossible and direct. You have to create this experience for them, not just by showing them the impossible, but by allowing them to be emotionally involved, Ã la Ian Rowland's earlier post. This does not mean that your routines will not be direct, or impossible. These will always be important factors within any effect. But it means you have to work to create this experience, because being incredible, on it's own, is not enough. You can't just be the guy who punched the boyfriend. You have to be the boyfriend, to the lovely girl, in order for the experience to be meaningful and lasting. |
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Jonathan Inner circle Oklahoma 1223 Posts |
Read Derren Brown's "Absolute Magic" and Ken Weber's "Maximum Entertainment". I didn't say anything about people not remembering something they did. It's the directness of an effect that I was talking about. They both talk fairly extensively about this and I agree 100%.
The routine Ian described was wonderful, and was very direct. Don't confuse "short" with direct. In fact, in some cases it can be backwards. If it is too quick the audience can't keep up and digest everything that has happened and it will flop. I see that happen a lot, especially magicians. Actually, DB talks about that in the book as well come to think of it! However, the routine Ian described would not have the same affect on everyone. Some people would be very turned off by that, feel patronized, and find it cheesy. Not the majority of people, but some people. To others, a direct and impossible effect that was as simple as you could get would be much more impactful. To be truthful, I've never heard anyone recount a magic trick that was emotional at all, it was always something direct and impossible...now they are probably remembering it more direct than it was, as careful wording and psychology can influence. I believe there are three main reasons for this (maybe more): 1) There aren't as many performers out there who do emotional presentations. 2) They were personal experiences, and thus wouldn't be understood as well by others, nor is it something they would necessarily want to share. In Ian's presentation, it would not be becoming of her to relate that to others, as it would make her seem self-important (similar to Joseph's dreams in the OT, which his brothers did not enjoy hearing about). 3) That emotional connection is much easier made when working one on one, as opposed to a stage effect or something that goes out to a large audience. Since the vast majority of people experience magic/mentalism as part of an audience (live or through media), not many will have had an emotional experience like that. I believe you can do that with a large audience, but it is much much harder and might never be as strong as a one-on-one effect! Since we are talking about people remembering an effect and creating "legend" through word of mouth, emotional experiences wouldn't necessarily be the answer. And I don't think that Ian was suggesting that. He is right on in that the situation I gave where some people didn't remember what I did because "they don't like things they can't understand", creating an emotional experience like what he suggested would have connected with them. They were people who would better respond (in the long run) to something emotional. Plus, I believe the biggest reason is probably that they knew me or knew of me in a way the prevented me from being anything special. So, it was more like I did something they didn't understand than showing I was somehow anything special. There are plenty of instances where I hear second or third hand accounts that audiences I've performed for are still talking about what I did a year or so earlier (like when I get a booking from someone who was there). And there are also instances when I've tried to do something emotional to someone I knew or that has some connection to me, and it failed because of that very fact. Had I done that to someone I didn't know, it would have most likely had a huge impact. One final thing. As for "blowing their mind" not exactly equating to the most memorable...in my case it does equate. Everyone is different so it might not be the case with all performers, but the most direct and impossible effects not only get the biggest reaction, but are the ones that they talk about afterward. They go on and on about it right in front of me. Of course in stage shows I don't get to see that unless I come out afterward. In college I got a lot of good feedback as word spread very quickly and people often came to me because they heard about something I did, asking me to do it for them. It was actually a bad thing as the University did not like the word of mouth. True story (which I've told a few times on here already), my frosh year the school set up an intervention for me because they thought I had some kind of evil power. Ridiculous, but word spread and people were apparently calling the school wanting to know who the kid was so they could get psychic readings. I never claimed to be anything other than a magician or mentalist and thought I always made it quite clear that I did not have any kind of power at all. It's an embarrassing story, obviously, as I had to hide it the next 4 years. But, I tell that to say that I never heard anyone talk about anything I did that wasn't direct and impossible. Everything else eventually, through attrition, got dumped from my repertoire. That's how I learned to always seek to make effects as direct and impossible as, well, possible. Hope that makes sense. Oh, btw, I remember going to see David Copperfield in the mid 90's with my family and the things they talked about over and over again afterward (and even years later) were the funny bits he did between tricks! I still remember them today. He had us sing b-i-n-g-o and there was a running gag when people came in late and he would recap to them what had happened..."we sang Bingo!" was the big line that made everyone laugh. So, those moments of personality and character in a stage show I think can be just as important in leaving a lasting impression! |
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Waters Inner circle 2508 Posts |
This is a great and insightful thread. It is funny at what makes it into a long-term memory and what doesn't. Interestingly enough, it seems the more emotive and personal (whatever that means?) an experience is, the more likely it will be retrievable and meaningful (duh?). I recall performing a few pieces in a close up environment, in impromptu fashion.
I performed my KK variation, my psychological card force and a routine that involves a happy personal memory (called "Terms of Endearment"). Later, I saw this person again and wanted to see what "stuck" for her. You don't need a second guess. I think simple effects are often the most powerful and people are interested in what (and who) matters to them. Obvious, but worth re-stating. Emotion is HIGHLY related to memory. With regards, Sean |
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pearljamjeff Inner circle Ann Arbor 1247 Posts |
Quote:
On 2009-08-22 06:09, Jonathan wrote: Those moments ARE the lasting impression. While we are giving each other reading assignments, read "Strong Magic" by Darwin Ortiz. I'm not confusing "direct" with "short," they more assuredly go hand in hand. If someone challenges you to tell him what he is thinking, and you decide to just give it a shot... after all, that's what we are talking about here right... I think it's a safe bet to play that you aren't going to build that moment up beforehand. You can't invest too much in it up front, in case you are wrong and you just need to brush it off. So yes, these kinds of "direct effects" are great in the moment, but too short and void of process to be memorable. Lastly, as to people not recounting the "emotionality" of magic in your experience, I think that could be a fair assessment. It's not the emotional hook that they remember, it's the emotional hook that causes them to remember, and what they remember most vividly is their own amazement. Without an emotional trigger, though, you can bet top dollar that it won't be anything they write home about. Quote:
On 2009-08-22 05:55, Jonathan wrote: Maybe it's still to early and I am not thinking properly, but doesn't this directly contradict your opening post?
Jeff Travilla - I own an advertising agency to help finance my magic addiction.
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Drewmcadam Inner circle Scotland 1239 Posts |
Great post from Mr Rowland. Bravo
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Jonathan Inner circle Oklahoma 1223 Posts |
Just to clarify, the opening post was just relating the frustrating experience of when you think you've really killed and then they don't end up remembering it. lol It's happened a few times and, while funny, sure is frustrating! So definitely, direct and impossible doesn't always lead to unforgettable. Like I mentioned, it was said "I don't like things I don't understand". This is something I never heard any mentalist or magician talk about, thought it was very interesting that there are some people out there like that. As several have mentioned, the emotional aspect is another way to really affect people and be remembered.
Personally, in my performances (that aren't casual, informal) I prefer to deeply connect with the audience as much as possible, so while I might not directly play to their emotions like Ian's example, it still creates an emotional experience and not just a cool trick. I do also want to point out that what I mean by coincidence is not just taking credit for something that happened (that would indeed be kind of silly and not too impressive), but instead taking advantage of the situation and building it up into the effect I'm doing to create something impossible. Say you are set to do an effect later that involves a force, and you notice that they have chosen your force card by chance for an earlier effect, you can combine that into what you are doing. Or, sometimes, I just follow a gut feeling and take a huge gamble, knowing that I can always play it off or create some kind of out to save me. In most cases I try to have built into an effect a miracle in the small chance that something specific might happen. It might only happen once ever, but why not? There are other kinds of situations as well which provide a huge opportunity based on where you are performing, who you are performing for, etc. Richard Osterlind talks about a few of these situations in his great new book. He relates how memorable, and reputation-making those times have been. A perfect example, actually. |
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mindshrink Special user Delhi,India 916 Posts |
I shall have to re-read Rowlands post a couple of times to let the whole thing sink in.
It should reveolutionize my method of thinking and presentation. |
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