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tophead New user 36 Posts |
Hi all, Happy New Year! (depending on your spot on this little blue globe!)
I have a problem. The recession has forced me back to school. As a result, I think my best option for bringing income which I might have some control over the schedule is through my, this far, hobby. 'Till now, I have smiled when pros lament that a trick is not "practical" because I know, that I can choose my moment, and use some illusions that may not be easily resettable or "practical" But now I find myself needing something which is not 9-5 so that I can master my first love, computer science. What advice, books or learning would you give someone who is adept at magic but has not stepped into the realm of the business side? I can build my own website but I have no idea about things like obtaining a gig! Should I get a manager? Whatever advice you seasoned pros have I am ready to soak up like a sponge. |
DWRackley Inner circle Chattanooga, TN 1909 Posts |
I’m wrestling with that very question myself right now. I want to do this thing, and I know I’m good (false modesty doesn’t help anyone), and I’ve seen that I can make some money with it, but how to turn it into a business?!?
The best advice I’ve come up with to date is that it has to be a business. If you can’t make the numbers work, something has to change: your hours, your cost, your fees, something! Fees: if you charge too much you may lose some bookings; too little and you’ll lose money (yes, you CAN lose money at this!) Skill set: are you good enough to command an amount that will pay the bills? Advertising: are you prepared to plow half (or more) of your earnings back into getting public exposure? Sales: Are you able to make the calls that may eventually result in a booking? (Cold calling is not fun in ANY business!) And then there’s the simple fact that a large percentage of businesses are never able to make the numbers work, and they (and the capital) disappear, often with loss of reputation (as well as some hopes and dreams). While you’re in college take as many business courses as you can work into your schedule. Think Entrepreneur, not white collar. You’re not looking for an MBA; you want the whole lemonade stand. Bookkeeping and accounting are not the same things. It may be simpler to hire an accountant when it’s time than doing it yourself, but keep him in your closest loop. But learn to be the boss! One thing that may be in our favor (or maybe not). Historically people seek entertainment to help them forget about hard financial times. That’s what helped vaudeville and later on the first theatres. BUT, this go-around, we have the internet, pay-per-view, and NetFlix, so they may NOT be leaving home as much to get their kicks and giggles. It’s a gamble. But then business always is. All of that said, I LOVE business, and the freedom (AND the hassles) it presents. I haven’t worked for a paycheck since February of 1996, and don’t plan on ever going back. But I don’t depend on just one business, either. And I can’t (with all honesty) say that I’m ready to jump on this one with both feet. If you think you can juggle all these things together, then I’d encourage you to go for it. Just be aware that it’s not going to be a magic genie lamp. It’s work! Good luck to you!
...what if I could read your mind?
Chattanooga's Premier Mentalist Donatelli and Company at ChattanoogaPerformers.com also on FaceBook |
Vick Inner circle It's taken me 10+ years to make 1120 Posts |
Tophead – Don’t!
If magic and performing is not your first love, just stick with school. You're not going to be professional about it, be a hobbyist. If you can't dedicate your life to it don't insult yourself and working pros with your attitude of "I’ll just dabble to make a little money while I study computer science". If you can't be an artist or won't put in the time, study and dedication stay off the stage Please do not go into my profession thinking you can make some pocket change just because you think it's easy or the recession pushed you into it. If there is not money out there for you to get a different job what makes you think anyone is going to have money to hire you to. How would you feel if I posted on a computer science board that I know a little html (I do) and can install simple programs on a server so I am going to make a little money while I study magic. Don't disrespect the art Ever! What makes you think you can do anything a pro does much less do something a pro can't? You asked for advice, here it is. Performing magic isn't easy money for anyone. Stay with computer science for money and be a hobbyist if you would like to.
Unique, Thought Provoking & Amazing Magical Entertainment Experiences
Illusions By Vick Blog of a real world working magician Magic would be great, if not for magicians |
pradell Special user Alaska 560 Posts |
"DON'T" is a very strong word. The decision as to how to approach your art is yours to make. Don't let anyone else decide this for you.
You have indicated that you are "adept at magic." The creative part of the brain is very different than the business side. Making magic pay is an art in and of itself. One can kill the goose by doing so much magic for money that the love of the art becomes secondary to the need for cash. So it is a delicate balance. You can learn a lot from slowly building a magic business. The knowledge you gain from doing so can ultimately assist you in running any other type of business. I was a starving student for many years before operating first an entertainment business, and later a professional firm. I learned more about the business side from operating the entertainment business than from going to school or practicing as an associate for other professionals. There are good books about the business side of magic such as Joel Bauer's "Hustle Hustle" and others. But also there are many books about running a business and marketing that are more general and are also applicable to a wide range of businesses. Don't limit yourself simply to books about magic. If I knew in school what I know now about running a business I would have made certain decisions about my magical career much sooner and possibly have been successful earlier. But hindsight is 20/20. Read all kinds of business books. Start slow, one step at a time. Talk with others. Don't put all of your eggs in one basket. See how things go. If your income increases as a result, and you're still enjoying the art and entertaining others, keep going. If things are not working, regroup and reconsider your options. :magicrabbit: |
tophead New user 36 Posts |
@DWRackley
Thank you for your insightful comments, and self-questions, about the various aspects of the business. And yes, I do anticipate it being work! @Vick I don't see why I'd be trampling on your profession. I regard the art highly. By your logic, wouldn't I already be trampling your profession by performing as a hobbyist? And my skill in this discipline is more akin to being able to create well structured, useful data-driven commercial websites in C#/Asp.Net than it is to plain old HTML. I'm not doing self-working stuff from 101 Card Tricks here... I'm not saying I'm great, but I am effective and entertain people. I have made money with magic! I just wasn't asking for it at the time. Right now I'm simply asking you pros, what are some tips to help me ask for it? That's all. I put A LOT of time into magic, A lot of thinking and a lot of care. I hope our future meetings on the Café are not rife with the conception that I am a cancer in your profession. Cheers and thank you for your criticism, I will make extra effort to not give magic a bad name. @Pradell Thank you for your advice as well. What would be a good way to test the waters? Would restaurants be deep-end diving? Parties? My problem is, I'm not sure how to get into it. I should state that I'm not without another resource for this. I know and study under a seasoned pro. But the kinds of things he books are big. Truck loads of big. Far bigger than what I'm looking for. So I thought I'd put my feelers out for other perspectives. I guess I'm asking where is a good place to start? There are no longer any magic shops anywhere in my area (thanks to the internet) otherwise I'd see about a job there. Where did you all start? I thought about putting a set together and hitting some open mic comedy nights and passing out business cards to interested parties but, as I've already insulted a pro in Magic (above) I don't want the comedians on my case for doing the lowest of low: "prop comedy" and I'm certainly more magician than comedian anyway so my guess is that wouldn't go over well, even if the audience is diggin' it. |
davidpaul$ Inner circle Georgetown, South Carolina 3086 Posts |
http://www.sixfiguremagic.com/
I purchased this, and just started to delve in to the material. So far after reading the first 50 pages or so and watching the accompanying DVD's and CD's I've learned a lot. This would certainly answer the questions you've raised. I'm not involved in this project in any way but wanted to learn from someone who's been there done that. Besides I have up to year to return it for a full refund if I'm not satisfied. Just wanted to share.. Dave
Guilt will betray you before technique betrays you!
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MillsJW New user 14 Posts |
My profession is "Photographer" http://www.PhotosByWalt.com My Hobby (first love) is Magic. I've been in the IBM for over 50 years, worked as a semi-professional magician with an agency for a number of years, and still entertain small groups on a regular basis.
The absolute best way to get bookings is "word of mouth". Referrals are fantastic. Check the internet for referral groups in your area. There are paid gruops like BNI and many more casual groups. You will be an asset to either. Have professionally printed business cards. Not those you print - pay someone. It says "I'm a professional" when you hand out a professionally printed card. Website is number 2. Get links on other sites directing folks to your site. Look into joining the Chamber of Commerce. Cost for an indivitual is usually only a couple of hundred bucks, but well worth it. Last- take most of this post with a little salt. There are some great suggestions above. |
Ed_Millis Inner circle Yuma, AZ 2292 Posts |
I am currently on my journey to make a "professional part-time" business from my magic. Here's some things I have learned:
-- The killer lurks on the business side of this affair. You can have a great magic show and still lose your shirt! Create a business plan. Any good business plan book will tell you that your plan *will* change as it smacks up against reality, but the act of planning and the thnking that you must do to provide the answers will serve you well. -- Read books on how to conduct a service business - I highly recommend "Selling the Invisible", "The Invisible Touch", and "What Clients Love", all by Harry Beckwith. -- Polish your show to a high gloss. As Vick says, don't disrespect the art by throwing something agianst the wall and hoping it sticks. -- Find your niche in magic. There's room at the bottom, and money to be made there. What makes me think there's money to pay me? The same thing that makes Macy's believe there's money out there despite JCPenny and WalMart. -- Head over to the Tricky Business forum of the Café and ASK QUESTIONS!! *ANY and ALL* questions! Nothing is too basic or "stupid" to ask. There's a lot of part-time pros here on the Café, and lots of stories and advice. Dive in and enjoy! Ed |
BrianMillerMagic Inner circle CT 2050 Posts |
With all due respect to Vick, and he and I have had some significant disagreements in the past, magic need not be your "first love" to have fun with it and make some spare cash in the meantime. I don't feel disrespected by anyone who does magic even though it isn't their "first love", so long as they are doing it well and taking it seriously. Since you've already indicated that you can do it well and take it seriously, then kudos.
As a serious hobbyist, you can still put your name out there in the birthday party market with a quality show, or even land a restaurant if you learn the proper way to go about doing such things from a business perspective. Since I don't have the time here to go into all of the business aspects, you can listen to others in this thread or simply do a Café search and find hundreds of thousands of posts on how to get started doing birthday party or restaurant work. Best of luck to you with your degree, and magic as well. |
Vick Inner circle It's taken me 10+ years to make 1120 Posts |
"The chief trouble is that the damage is not personal only. It is not limited to the bungler himself. It goes much further than that. It hurts all magicians as entertainers. And it injures all magic as entertainment.
Take the number of exhibitions of magic that are given throughout the country in a single day. This means all of them--good, mediocre and poor. Fully seventy-five percent of the performances are poor according to modern entertainment standards. Another twenty-four percent are mediocre. The writer feels certain he is being conservative when he estimates that not more than one percent of the daily and nightly performances can be called smart and modern. When ninety-nine percent of a product is poor or mediocre ALL of it is classed that way. That's why every poorly prepared magical performer hurts the entire field." "
Unique, Thought Provoking & Amazing Magical Entertainment Experiences
Illusions By Vick Blog of a real world working magician Magic would be great, if not for magicians |
Hansel Inner circle Puerto Rico 2492 Posts |
I think you may start doing shows for free...for hospitals, schools, churchs etc. Here you will receive all the experience of handle situations with audiences, something that in many cases is not so easy,. Start to build a routine, a short one maybe 25 or 30 minutes.
Offer this act to all the people that I mentioned before. Practice your skill every time you have. The point here is that you need to have good and improved material before you go to add a charge for your work. don't PRACTICE IN PUBLIC...practice in your home,next move on on rehearsal and scripting of a show. Take the routine that you have in mind and pratice , do it the most you can...but knowing exactly what you doing. So, you have an act, you know your stuff what next? Go to borders and get a bussinnnes management book. When you start to make money with your " hobby" this pass to be a bussinnes. You need to know about contracts, checks, taxes and all that things to be succesfull in the " Paper work " of your magic career. When you are on road, the script start to change, some things don't work as we expect, other are better than we think...but we are in the real world...the school of the stage. Good Luck in your magic, Hansel!
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domno New user 81 Posts |
I believe its completely possible to put on a good show for people even if you are not trying to do magic as your main profession. I also don't believe that having bad magicians in the world will hurt magic that much. There are bad bands, but people still listen to music. There are bad athletes and people still watch sports.
Not everyone can make a decision to do only magic for a living easily. Its a risky decision; putting all your eggs in one basket if you will. Who is to say that tophead may not do magic to put himself through school and end up being a professional magician in the future any way. Bad Religion (a rock band) and AC/DC both got their starts putting themselves though school and ended up being musicians any way. Maybe I misinterpreted some of the things said in this thread. I find it kind of rude to tell someone that's asking for advice, "if you don't feel the way I feel, just quit now." If the only people working in the magic industry was a David Copperfield or Criss Angel, it would cost 2 grand to book a magician for your kids birthday party. I'm not trying to sound aggressive here. We are fortunate to enjoy something that has the possibility of being lucrative. If I wanted to do magic professionally, I would make sure I did a good job of it. That does not mean that I would quit my job of which I'm half way to retirement. I know a lot of "artists". Artist roughly translates to unemployed in this economy unless they are already established or they get a break. I'm ranting now. Go big or stay home is good advice sometimes. I don't believe it is in this situation though. |
Ed_Millis Inner circle Yuma, AZ 2292 Posts |
The biggest thing is to make sure you are **entertaining**! And that will mean different things to different audiences. One audience is entertained by things another audience will say is bad or boring. Kids at different ages are entertained by different things, and will find a well-rehearsed multi-phase stage routine boring. And most adult audiences would turn up their noses at Hippity-Hop Rabbits.
So find your niche, find what they like, and do it well. Barney and Jay Leno have their own niches, and their respective audiences may not be entertained by the other - yet both are successful in their niche. You can go with the Victrian look Vick uses, the big glasses and colorful costume David Kaye ("Silly Billy") uses, or even a 100% polyester vest like me. As long you entertain well the people in front of you. Rehearse the paint off everything! But don't forget the business end. Many excellent entertainers have lost their sirts because at the end of the day they paid more attention to the art than to the numbers. Ed |
mgcpwrs New user San Jose, CA 53 Posts |
Wow, everyone gave such good answers.
My input is simple: starting a business has been/ can be / IS - a full time job. School is a full time job - it never really ends - you just run out of time and need to move on, not to get behind. Be careful and always make sure you are putting your time - where your priorities really are. Good Luck with your journey in 2010! |
DaleTrueman Veteran user Australia 317 Posts |
Go for it Tophead!
Vick I think you make too many assumptions about the quality of other peoples magic. |
tophead New user 36 Posts |
Hey thanks everybody for all your tips and advice! I have a lot of work ahead of me!
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