Hey everybody, my eighteenth birthday is comming up and my dad agreed to get me a set of cups, which was strange because he usually doesn't spend money on my magic and especially not the price of a set of good cups. I am going to pharmacy school after this year so this very well could be the last set of cups I get for the next six years. I want to buxk fot=r some extra money while I'm away since I'm looking very seriously at St. Louis College of Pharmacy or the one in Chicago. Now for my question, I have heard that phoenix 2 cups are good street cups if you don't want a huge cup; my question is what makes a good street cup? Is it the weight? Because if that is the case then there are many other cups that are tooled in .64 copper that hold a tennis ball (which is the minimum load I would consider for street use and even really for any venue.) like the foxy 3. Is it the dimple depth? becase there are other cups with deeper dimples or one can use heavier balls (that felt weird to type lol). Really the two cups I am considering asking him for is the phoenix 2 cups or the babe cups. I just don't want a cup that will be too big to ever use anywhere but the street but will hold up and out live me by a long time. So what makes a good street or busking cup? because the foxy 3 cups look good too and I love the way they display a tennis ball but they may just not be practical for me right now given my situation and future plans. sorry if this was a seemingly ignorant question I have only been performing c+b for a year. any answers will be greatly appretiated, thanks

Clay

What makes a good street cup great is YOUR PRESENTATION.

As long as they take the beating and keep on ticking that's all that matters.

Tom Frank who created and sells the Phoenix cups even likes the cups to be all dented up. As does Gazzo. Take a look at Gazzo's cups in the Cups and Balls Museum.

Big cups made of thick metal that can survive being dropped on to the concrete ground from 4 feet+

Anything beyond that is personal preference.

You won't go wrong if you get the T. Frank Phoenix cups. You'll have a set of cups that will out-live you with a little care -even at the tender age of 18, with a whole big shiney life ahead of you

The Foxy 3 combo cups give you something extra to work with as well, you would never need another set.

http://www.rnt2.com/index.php?target=pro......id=30157

Are they top heavy like the mendozas? I love my mendozas to death but they are sort of top heavy.

What else do you all look for in a street cup

No they are very nicely balanced and feel great in the hand.

In reverse order of importance -- most important being last:

The durability of the cup.
The size of the load that it will take.
The attic space.
The balance of the cup (consistency from cup to cup more important than anything else here).
The weight of the cup.
YOUR ABILITY TO PRESENT THE ROUTINE IN AN ENTERTAINING MANNER.

Regarding some of your stated considerations:
The depth of the dimple is not as important as other factors. A dimple that is too deep will conceal more of the ball that is sitting on it than a shallow dimple.

Top heavy on a street cup is NOT a bad thing. I'd rather have the saddle come to rest on the concrete rather than the mouth.

While the foxy 2.5 and 3's are great cups I don't think they look like a street cup. This is just my opinion but I think something more "classic" such as the gazzo cups or the RNT2 street cups. Even the mendozas would look good to me for a street cup.

Don't get me wrong, I love the design of the foxy line, just not for street work.

Has Gary Animal released any of his new Devil cups yet? They look like beauties.

I think Gary is still getting settled in after his move back to the UK.

As always, the Cellini cups are great. But, if I was to buy another set today and couldn't track down the Cellinis, I would contact Gary Animal. Any set from him would make me happy.(And the devils look great.) He makes great cups. They have the right feel to them. Not polished, no fancy stuff. Street stuff.

/Ark

Good question! I just asked this exact same question as I included a "Street Cups" category at RNT2 and was trying to determine which cups qualified for Steet Cup status.
I think many of the benefits you ask about are important considerations for any cup purchase, not just a street cup. For instance, the depth of the dimple in the saddle is entirely a matter of personal opinion and preference to each individual, but should be considered.
And Jumbo cups are not just made for the street, they are also made for the stage.
When we say "Street Cups" we are really talking about cups that are used outdoors so they need to be durable.

Ultimately my designation for Street Cup status only relied upon one thing:
The cups need to be spun from heavy .064 gauge copper.

Since all my jumbo cups are spun from .064 gauge they are all street-worthy, but there are other cups that are even more durable (and easier to handle) so, for that reason, they are included in Street Cups.

Q. What Makes a Good Street Cup???
A. Durability. ALL the rest is just your own personal preference.

Thanks Donnie, Now to move deeper into this topic, are all .64 copper cups equally as durable? Because if they are then why do people always say the phoenix 2 cups can take a beating but never mention any other .64 cups and if they are equally durable then what would make me want the phoenix cups or any other street cups you carry over say the foxy3 cups?

Clay,
I can't really answer for WHY people form an opinion one way or another.

I suspect that the Phoenix II cups have been viewed as durable because they were one of the only standard size cups that RNT II released in .064 gauge.

These days though, we have spun Traditional Cups and Foxy 3 Cups (standard size cups) in .064 copper, but very few of them have been used by the public as of yet.
Certainly, the Phoenix II, the Traditional Cups and the Foxy 3 are all equally durable.
Not all cups can be created in a heavy gauge like this. Most cups have designs that were created for a .050 thickness and the walls of the cups can't get any thicker or vaccuums and sticking occur during stacking and nesting.

I don't think the opinion of Gazzo Cups has ever been anything other than they are durable! In the area of Jumbo Cups, the Gazzos have a reputation for "taking a beating" simply because people know Gazzo beats them up.
Paul Fox Chick Cups don't have that kind of reputation because they have probably always been viewed as a "collector's item", even though they are VERY durable cups and in production RIGHT NOW - meaning: not rare at all. PF Chick Cups are my favorite Jumbo Cup - they have a graceful style, stand tall and are very durable.

Unfortunately you can't actually go somewhere to HOLD THESE CUPS in your hand. If you could, you would see that the heavy gauge copper is very durable in all applications.

I think you are misreading the posts. Most of the people mention the T. Frank Phoenix cups (or just the Phoenix cups), which are NOT the same as the Phoenix II cups. I don't know the actual gauge of the metal in the Phoenix cups. They are quite thick. But they are also quite inexpensive. The alloy is somewhat unusual. It is probably more of a red bronze than a pure copper.

The Phoenix II cups are a better design, generally, with more attic space.

I may have answered this for Donnie in the preceding post. There are different copper alloys. Some are stiffer than others. A softer alloy has the advantage of being easier to reshape after an accident. Copper also work hardens when it is spun, as does brass.

Important note -- Donnie's cups are not spun from .64 copper. They are spun from .064 copper. There is a huge difference. The first is more than a half inch thick. The second is about the thickness of a penny. You probably couldn't lift a cup made from .64 copper. I know that I could't.

Thank Bill,
A lot of people make that mistake with the gauge.
When you are dealing with copper, the thickness of the copper is measured in inches.
.032" and .040", and .050" are common thicknesses for spinning. .064" is less common.

Clay,
Do you have access to a magic club or a well-stocked magic shop? It would be great to get your hands on a couple sets of cups that meet the guidelines provided by Donnie, Bill and others. If there was a "best cup" on the market, then that would be the only one out there! Your personal preference, how the cups feel in your hands, will make a difference in what is best for you. Of course, if you get any of the recommended cups from above you will fall in love with them and swear they are the best on the market!
Hudson
PS. Don't forget Bill's point that the most important think is a great performance!

Let me very strongly suggest that you look through the cups and balls museum web site. There is more information in those pages than you will find in almost any other single source.

Regarding important factors of street cups -- the old time street workers preferred a tall cup to set off the final loads and make them more visible to the audience.