|
|
Go to page [Previous] 1~2 | ||||||||||
IAIN Eternal Order england 18807 Posts |
Exactly, I still associate the word "cards" with my mum and dad, 'cos as I was growing up we'd sit and play music after sunday lunch and play cards or board games together...
even now, when I handle cards - I still see myself "there" in the late 70s learning how to play card games...
I've asked to be banned
|
|||||||||
insight Inner circle 3095 Posts |
I think the problem is that we are making this into a binary issue. Tricks may not be the first thing to pop into someones mind at the thought of cards, but it surely can be in their top 5 word associations! I just asked ten random people in the street what 3 words came to their mind when I showed them a playing card, and 70% said trick in their top 3 selections!
Posted: Jul 22, 2010 6:27pm Just an FYI, I realize my experiment above is not scientific by any means, but the results were surprising. |
|||||||||
mastermindreader 1949 - 2017 Seattle, WA 12586 Posts |
Insight-
A question for you- Out of the ten random people you polled, how many said "trick" as their first selection? Bob |
|||||||||
funsway Inner circle old things in new ways - new things in old ways 9981 Posts |
I posed this question becasue I am intensly interested in what makes "mentalism" or "mental magic" work or not work with today's audiences as opposed to 50 years ago when I first dabbled in such things. I have put out a couple of eBooks on "mental magic" effects based on my early experiences, and several "cross the line" into the potential for actual mentalism -- opne reason I quit doing them.
Mentalism as a demonstration requires the use of symbols, and playing cards provide a set of symbols of known value. This can be good or bad depending on how they are presented. They key question is whether "any magic trick" intended or accidental, detracts from either a mentalism performance or a demontration of authentic "psychic things." A pendulum, for example, can be presented as a trick or something of a psychic nature. If a known magician uses a pendulum, does its "mystery" vary from when it is used by a mentalist, fortune-teller, priest or alien? Does the perception of playing cards as a collection of symbols change with the perceptions of the performer? Does the use of such familiar symbols serve to eliminate fear in the spectator? -- or heighten their suspicion of trickery? all of the responses so far are helpful -- please keep it up.
"the more one pretends at magic, the more awe and wonder will be found in real life." Arnold Furst
eBooks at https://www.lybrary.com/ken-muller-m-579928.html questions at ken@eversway.com |
|||||||||
insight Inner circle 3095 Posts |
Only one out of the ten said trick as the first thing that came out of his mouth.
|
|||||||||
backinblack Special user 910 Posts |
More interesting might be the question:
"explantion for miracles performed with cards" |
|||||||||
insight Inner circle 3095 Posts |
Again, there could be a bias bAsed on the fact that my sample size was small and concentrated in one area, among other factors. So I hope nobody uses my results in a published paper. But I would recommend you to try this out on your own and perhaps the collective response will be more telling?
|
|||||||||
backinblack Special user 910 Posts |
Well, you are right. statsitical significance starts at (if I remember right) n = 27 with a z-test.
anyhow: I allready modified the test-question: now researchers to the front.. ;-) |
|||||||||
Mindpro Eternal Order 10585 Posts |
Yes, but give all ten of those questioned fifteen seconds to think about it (which is what they're doing as you begin your effect) and trick will be quite dominate.
|
|||||||||
backinblack Special user 910 Posts |
Depends what you want to measure: if you want to measure the affective association ask for the first word popping up in the mind. if you want to measure the cognitive reflected impression give them a little time.
|
|||||||||
insight Inner circle 3095 Posts |
And the only way we can truly know is by surveying the audience members.
|
|||||||||
backinblack Special user 910 Posts |
Depends if you want to know about the idea of the average person or those under the influence of a performance.
|
|||||||||
mastermindreader 1949 - 2017 Seattle, WA 12586 Posts |
Insight- Thanks for your honest answer. Just one out of ten said "trick" as their first response. That kind of contradicts the assumption made by a few other posters that ANY person, when asked to associate a word with 'cards', will say 'trick.'
Of course if you ask people to come up with a series of associations, "trick" is bound to show up sooner or later. The point, though, is that there is NOT an automatic association of "cards" and "trick." A magician or practitioner of "mental magic," though, will almost always get that association. (BTW, "mentalism" and "mental magic" are NOT synonymous.) Good thoughts, Bob Cassidy |
|||||||||
funsway Inner circle old things in new ways - new things in old ways 9981 Posts |
Quote:
On 2010-07-22 19:23, insight wrote: experience has shown that any such survey biases the responses. With either magic or mentalism we are dealing with concerts that the spectator is avoiding classifying or catagorizing. To ask them to state what was occuring in their mind at the precise occurance of the "ah-ha" moment will only get a response of how they feel about it NOW. If they could classify it the experience would be neither magical nor psychic. The best that can be done is to observe or record the audience during a performance and then compare reactions with what the performer believes is occuring. At least you can synchronize cause and effect even if full understanding of the dynamics is not possible. This is why combining a magic trick with mentalism may be contra-productive to assessing why an audience enjoys or rejects your performance. Yet, "mental magic" is enjoyable to most people -- possibly becasue it does not require any classification on the part of the spectator. For me it is easy -- I don't like cards for magic either.
"the more one pretends at magic, the more awe and wonder will be found in real life." Arnold Furst
eBooks at https://www.lybrary.com/ken-muller-m-579928.html questions at ken@eversway.com |
|||||||||
Zebaztian Special user The Netherlands 655 Posts |
Quote:
On 2010-07-22 19:32, mastermindreader wrote: Between brackets and with a 'BTW' - so that must be an important sentence. Can you explain what (for you) the biggest difference is between mentalism and mental magic? And why is it not a matter of nuance?
My mind reading routines: http://www.basjongenelen.nl/goocheltrucs/. Scroll a bit down to the English routines.
|
|||||||||
Dick Christian Inner circle Northern Virginia (Metro DC) 2619 Posts |
Apart from the posts by Bob Cassidy and me , IMO the most intelligent one in this entire thread is the following from Zebaztian.
Quote:
On 2010-07-22 15:10, Zebaztian wrote: Having said that, in response to Zebastian's query re: the difference between "mentalism" and "mental magic" the best explanation I can offer is to refer to the following classic question and answer: Q: What is the difference between an etymologist and an entommologist? A: The etymologist knows. Relating that to Zebasian's query: Q: What is the difference between a mentalist and a mental magician? A: The mentalist knows. 'Nuff said.
Dick Christian
|
|||||||||
kambiz Inner circle Perth, down by the cool of the pool 1129 Posts |
Doing it for real.......
Kam
If I speak forth, many a mind will shatter,
And if I write, many a pen will break. .....and when I consider my own self, lo, I find it coarser than clay! |
|||||||||
Bill Hallahan Inner circle New Hampshire 3222 Posts |
This topic is continued at Cards in mentalism.
Other topics discussing whether to use cards in mentalism include: Cards in mentalism Playing cards & mentalism Mentalism with Cards See also: Cards and mentalism Mentalism with regular cards Mentalism with Cards?? Favorite mentalism with cards Killer Mentalism with Ordinary Cards Docc Hilford Customizing cards for mentalism effects Cards and mentalism Mentalism... With Cards! Marked cards and mentalism Your "Mentalism" Packet trick with cards Presentations for Mentalism with Cards
Humans make life so interesting. Do you know that in a universe so full of wonders, they have managed to create boredom. Quite astonishing.
- The character of ‘Death’ in the movie "Hogswatch" |
|||||||||
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Penny for your thoughts » » Least likely psychics » » TOPIC IS LOCKED (0 Likes) | ||||||||||
Go to page [Previous] 1~2 |
[ Top of Page ] |
All content & postings Copyright © 2001-2024 Steve Brooks. All Rights Reserved. This page was created in 0.04 seconds requiring 5 database queries. |
The views and comments expressed on The Magic Café are not necessarily those of The Magic Café, Steve Brooks, or Steve Brooks Magic. > Privacy Statement < |