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Vick Inner circle It's taken me 10+ years to make 1120 Posts |
Well ... here what you get with store bought and keeping the directions
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GcLrj-OyWf8 & http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jX57doMGIj4 ah ha ha ha
Unique, Thought Provoking & Amazing Magical Entertainment Experiences
Illusions By Vick Blog of a real world working magician Magic would be great, if not for magicians |
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TRUMPETMAN Special user Naples, FL 705 Posts |
I agree with Al's point to the extent that I try to make sure I am not doing things that other LOCAL guys are performing. I try to confab with the guys in my market regularly to make sure we are doing things that are different enough that our young audiences don't shout out "I saw (insert performer's name) do that same trick at my friend's birtday party".
Mark Pettey
Naples, FL facebook.com/robbietheringmaster |
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Al Angello Eternal Order Collegeville, Pa. USA 11045 Posts |
Starrpower
You are my buddie, and I hate to always disagree with you, but how many cover bands go anywhere? The real money is in original music. Vick You have definitely proven your point. Bob has to be 14 years old, and he is giving it his best shot. Lets leave poor Bob alone.
Al Angello The Comic Juggler/Magician
http://www.juggleral.com http://home.comcast.net/~juggleral/ "Footprints on your ceiling are almost gone" |
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magic4u02 Eternal Order Philadelphia, PA 15110 Posts |
Hi Ken: I want to really thank you for taking the time to post here and to share your thoughts. If folks do not know it, I know Ken really well and we are good friends. I commend you for sharing your thoughts here as many simply will not. We can totally have a difference of opinion and be able to discuss that openly without it being an attack on the other. I thank you for that. =)
With that in mind, let me dive into some of what you stated and give you my own personal take on it. Billy and Losander will never flat out say "use my routine" or "you do not even have to think". However, if you look at any Magic based magazine ad you will find many that do just that. It may not be worded that exact way, but in essence they are selling you on the fact that you do not have to think for yourself. Everything is given to you from the prop to the effect to how to do it, what to say and even how to move. Everything is given so you do not have to think for yourself at all. Now you are right in that they do not "want you screwing up their masterpiece". What they are telling you is that they do not want you screwing up how to perform the piece or effect. In other words, do not flash the method or perform the floating table wrong. learn the effect and how to perform the effect. However, I guarantee you that they do NOT want you doing THEIR routine exactly the way they do it. Performing it with the same patter and same music and same exact moves is basically stealing something they created. I would safely say they would encourage you to learn how to perform it and then find your own way of presenting it that fits you. How do I know this? I asked Losander myself. They want you to perform the effect well but find your own path of performance and routining. Yes. Some are more creatively gifted then others. We do not disagree there at all. The reason some are more creative is simple. they have chosen to work at it. Creativity is a learned trait. If you want to be more phsyically fit you must exercise. The same applies to creativity. If you want to be more creative, you must exercise your creative mind. it is as simple as that. Once again, I am not stating that you do not have a right to perform a routine you paid money for. I am suggesting to everyone if you SHOULD do this? See the difference? You absolutely have a right to perform the routine since you paid money for it. But should you go down the same path as everyone else who bought it like you did? I am glad that you and others acknowledge and are happy and grateful that there are others more creative then yourself. that is always nice to give credit where it is due. However, why stop there? Why not push yourself to be more creative then you are? Why settle for second best? Can you not push yourself to strive to be better then you are? I guarantee you that there is NO better feeling in the world when an audience applauds an act or routine that YOU created and that is entirely YOU! that feeling is by far better then any feeling you will ever get performing someone else's effect. Just food for thought. =) Kyle
Kyle Peron
http://www.kylekellymagic.com Entertainers Product Site http://kpmagicproducts.com Join Our Facebook Fan Page at http://facebook.com/perondesign |
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Starrpower Inner circle 4070 Posts |
As far as I know, Elvis Presley never wrote a song*. He got a lot of applause which I am pretty sure he felt good about. Being a performer does not require that one be the creator of the material being presented.
*Yeah, Elvis has a few writing credits, but those were more contractual than actual Elvis compositions. Let's see Al ... here's a short list of performers who recorded "White Christmas" and never went anywhere: Eddie Fisher The Drifters Elvis Presley Bob Marley Andy Williams Smokey Robinson Jimmy McGriff Doris Day The Supremes Dean Martin Barbra Streisand Michael Bolton Twisted Sister Taylor Swift Johnny Mathis The Carpenters Boy George ... ... My fingers are getting tired, so I'll just add "and hundreds more." Yep, I'd say that doing material that others do is a sure-fire way to kill a career! Next, should we check in on all those unsuccessful acts who recorded "Yesterday"? Sinatra is on that one! Or how about all those un-original actors who have done Shakespeare? My point is, it's not the material, it's the performer. Always has been. |
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Al Angello Eternal Order Collegeville, Pa. USA 11045 Posts |
Twisted Sister sang White Christmas. I didn't know that. Yes I see Starrpower magic, and music is a matter of presentation.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6_1X-VEhHFc
Al Angello The Comic Juggler/Magician
http://www.juggleral.com http://home.comcast.net/~juggleral/ "Footprints on your ceiling are almost gone" |
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Potty the Pirate Inner circle 4632 Posts |
Quote:
On 2010-11-27 11:54, Al Angello wrote: Er.....most working musicians are "cover bands". "Original artists" in the music field very, very rarely make even a subsistence living. Just go to ANY major resort, cruise ship, or large hotel, and the music MUST be covers. Many "original musicians" can't read dots, and end up working a few gigs every month (for very low fees) at local venues, pubs, etc. If they can gain a following, they MAY survive in the cut-throat music business - and of those, a TINY handful become stars, and earn the big bucks. This isn't fair, I've met many, many extemely talented songwriters and musicians, who never get anywhere with their own material - so the smart ones realise they MUST perform covers if they want to earn a living. You wouldn't believe how many fabulous songs are totally unknown, and most likely, will never be "discovered" - at least in their lifetimes. Posthumous recognition isn't going to pay mortgages and buy flashy lifestyles. The reason for this is simple - audiences want to hear songs they RECOGNISE. In magic, we don't have such an issue - but again, I'd venture to suggest that MOST magicians who actually earn a good living from their shows, are merely presenting "covers". If they do it well, they are highly entertaining - and of course, with magic, it's a lot easier to "jazz it up". My friend Muhtadi, a great drummer and musician from Toronto, regards classical musicians and cover bands as "simple musicians" - UNLESS they have their own "jazzy" interpretations of material. In my opinion, this is also true of magicians. It's not neccessary to create something entirely new from scratch - but if you really want to impress, you should learn to present established material in your own way, with your own style, dynamics, and pacing. I know a lot more musicians than magicians - and I assure you, it's only the truly dedicated and talented who can actually cut it out there in the real world. Just like our profession. Potty |
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Ken Northridge Inner circle Atlantic City, NJ 2392 Posts |
Quote:
On 2010-11-27 12:05, magic4u02 wrote: Agreed. No hostility whatsoever. Just two friends having a respectful discussion. I guess the only thing that struck about your post is when you said “to do someone else’s routine is bad.” IMHO using someone else’s routine (that you’ve paid for) is not, in itself, bad. Kyle, you are a very respected person here at the Café. There are many who read the Café just for the advice and will never post. I didn’t want that comment to go by without at least letting readers know there is a different opinion out there. I am not as respected as you but I am a successful professional children’s entertainer and feel my opinion is worth something. I once knew a magician who told me when he gets a new effect, the first thing he does is throws the directions in the trash! I don’t understand that thinking. You mean you're just going to throw away all of the inventors experience? Why, to prove you’re Mr. Orginal? (By the way, he is no longer in the business.) Here is something to think about: I do the Linking Rings in just about every show I do. It is a routine that is a cross between Marc DeSouza’s routine and Chris Capehart’s with some moves from Fitzkee’s manuscript. The linking rings are a 'tired old effect' and every move in this routine I credit to someone else’s thinking. However, I get more positive comments about this than any other routine in my show from both children and adults. It is a very magical moment in my show. Is that bad? Should I replace it because it is not original? Should I throw away all of the prior thinking by some greats in magic because I should be pursuing originality? I think not. Quote:
On 2010-11-27 15:28, Potty the Pirate wrote: This is my whole point. Only a hand full of us are really, really good at creating original material. Does that mean that most of us are bad? As a professional I must do what the audience likes and will get me booked again. I will never stop shooting for the stars and trying to be 100% original (there, aren’t you proud of me Kyle?). In the mean time I need to take care of my family and continue to run a successful business.
"Love is the real magic." -Doug Henning
www.KenNorthridge.com |
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Bill Hilly Elite user 449 Posts |
Quote:
On 2010-11-27 13:07, Starrpower wrote: Sure, but where are they now? That song is cursed: If you record it, you'll die. Hey Al, check this out: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CRW2poUfJ34 "Kiss me, I'm North Polish." |
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Al Angello Eternal Order Collegeville, Pa. USA 11045 Posts |
Beano
Here is one Starrpower mentioned, and even though I saw them live I did not know they did this one. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hEfGeOcQi......index=30
Al Angello The Comic Juggler/Magician
http://www.juggleral.com http://home.comcast.net/~juggleral/ "Footprints on your ceiling are almost gone" |
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Bob Sanders Grammar Supervisor Magic Valley Ranch, Clanton, Alabama 20504 Posts |
Quote:
On 2010-11-27 11:54, Al Angello wrote: Al, As an old booking agent and refugee from the music industry, many cover bands make many times what the "star" made in dollars. (Most simply worked more and at better venues!) Hit records were not the road to riches. Personal appearances were the geese that laid the golden eggs. It is still a matter of entertaining, and being "original" material is relatively worthless for that measure. Felton Jarvis was the A&R man for Elvis Presley. In our early days Felton and I worked together from Atlanta for Paramount and others. We had few requests for "Honest John" compared to a remake of "Dimples". He used that knowledge to help pick material for Elvis. Originally, was never a factor in the decision. RCA built an empire from it. Entertaining is really about the audience and not the artist. The poor composer leads an almost secret life. Yet he starts it all. Creating a classic is typically the mark of success in music. He never has to perform it and frankly, may do a poor job of it. Felton didn't claim that he could play a musical instrument! (I'm grateful that he had a guitar man! It really built a career for me.) Another surprise for you might be gained by talking to a real booking agent. Some with experience will tell you that there are plenty of magicians who turn down gigs because of the money that a recording artist would take in a heartbeat. The world is also full of recording artist that cannot afford to have a cover band. (I invested sometime with one last week. In spite of his hits and movies, he could not afford a cover band. Incidentally, he wrote his first hit!) Next time we cross on the road we'll have to hideout with a pizza and discuss this. Life is an adventure loaded with surprises. The entertainer is about as original as we get. Bob Sanders Magic by Sander |
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Starrpower Inner circle 4070 Posts |
Quote:
On 2010-11-27 20:30, Beano wrote: Hahahahaha! Now THAT was funny! |
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Dynamike Eternal Order FullTimer 24148 Posts |
Back to the beginning. There is a right and wrong way about learning new effects. The right way is to do what fits you best. Some are more interested in reading. Some prefer watching DVDs instead. I started magic by reading. Not from reading a book, but from the instructions of a magic set back in the 70's. My mother took me to magic shops to buy me more props. I had to read the instructions to learn how to do the effects. Later I did begin to buy books. Next I switched to VHS tapes. Today I have a lot of DVDs. Nowadays I still read books, read instructions from a magic prop, watch DVDs and watch online media. The wrong way is to have someone force you into doing what you feel uncomfortable with.
( I hope this brings Al back ) |
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