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Kameron Messmer Special user Billings, MT 742 Posts |
I've been looking into some effects lately and I keep running into things that are available as something mundane in a walmart and then sold with a dvd for 200% more as an "effect". Not that I blame people. Specifically, I've seen the "frixion" pens sold on Ellusionist for $5.00 (plus shipping I think) when you can buy them at K-mart 2 for $4. Wonderpet where a "littlest petshop" toy picks a card...for $72.00! and "subzero" for $40.00 Which seems to be those little gel beads for vases!
Now, I don't own any of these "effects" so I'm just guessing what they are. don't accuse me of revealing methods. That being said, anyone else know of things like this? Normal items being sold as "effects"? |
Cameron Francis V.I.P. 7025 Posts |
I don't think anyone is selling just a prop as an effect. Ellusionist might be selling their pens at a higher price point but the pens themselves are not effects. To learn effects with a Frixion pen, you'd have to buy Jeff Stone's dvd or Liam Montier's "Stranger Than Frixion" booklet (which comes with the pen).
The props are the props. The effect is what you make of them. When you buy a trick, what you are paying for is not only the prop but also an interesting presentation.
MOMENT'S NOTICE LIVE 3 - Six impromptu card tricks! Out now! http://cameronfrancismagic.com/moments-notice-live-3.html
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jprace Inner circle 2209 Posts |
I don't mind getting a gimmick that I can buy cheaper from a normal store. I am paying for the secret and the time that went into creating the effect.
However, when I can't stand gimmicks that say they are "custom made" when they are clearly not. |
MeetMagicMike Inner circle Gainesville Fl 3501 Posts |
Well said Cameron.
Let me add this. Last year I did a science show and demonstrated some gel crystals with an interesting property. It never occured to me to make them into a magic trick. Some one had a good idea and marketed it. I could say "Oh that is just these things I can buy here and I could have thought of that". Well I didn't think of it did I? And remember. Something that is commonly available one day may be impossible to find another day or in some area. Most people don't want to buy a trick and get a shopping list. They want the needed items included. A friend had a trick that consisted of a pen spring and a handkerchief. Good trick |
Kameron Messmer Special user Billings, MT 742 Posts |
Like I said, I don't blame them. Especially if it's a good idea. Some of these are not necessarily good ideas though. I just watched a review of sub zero and they HATED it. Again I don't own anything so I cant say for myself, but if the props are what I think they are and people hate the ideas on the DVD, and they charge $40 for it? maybe I'm just hoping people put out things of good quality.
Im not criticizing people for doing this. Just wondering if you guys knew any other tricks that are doing this. Another one I thought of was a toy that lit up on the bottom when you connected to 2 contacts on the bottom is being sold as a card trick... very clever. |
Tom Jorgenson Inner circle LOOSE ANGLES, CALIFORNIA 4451 Posts |
Interesting question. One product I released used a store off-the-shelf item. Let's see if it was worth the cost:
Let's take the price of an item, deduct 40% (standard wholesale markup) or 60% (if a jobber picks it up), then deduct the purchase price of the item itself, packaging and production costs. Now you get down to the profit level for the producer. Let's take, for instance, my case: a $20 effect that you could to go out and buy in a store. Jobbers price: $12. Product cost, say $2. Packaging, production, instructions or DVD (plus the time), another $2 IF you're lucky. Now you are talking an eight dollar income per unit. How much, out of that $8, goes to the inventor for just thinking it up? He thunk it up, you didn't. He decided it was good enough to share...$4 for thinking it up? That's fair. Now, how much for piddling around getting it workable, the routines right, etc. Another $3 for his days, weeks or months of effort? That leaves a buck overage. A buck pure net profit, $8 gross profit. How many can be sold? If thousands, it can be profitable...if hundreds..well, $800 is nice, but it won't pay the rent and spends pretty fast for the effort involved. If that store toy is used in a new, creative way for a dynamite trick, it's a steal at any price. If it's a dud, then you are taken (at any price). I think if you like the effect, it's of value and whether or not it's a store item is moot. Sometimes these things are released more as a courtesy than as a profit machine. To answer your initial question: Happens all the time, and has for the last 60 years that I know of. It's why Mentalists hang out in Staples, and why Magicians hang out in Walmart.
We dance an invisible dance to music they cannot hear.
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Kameron Messmer Special user Billings, MT 742 Posts |
I understand the cost it takes to get stuff out there. and I have NO problem with creators getting paid, it's just that I've bought FAR better tricks that were manufactured specifically for magic for FAR less. When something has a "normal" purpose, half the work is done. You don't have to make a prototype and get a manufacturer and start from scratch. It just seems like the "savings" might get passed on.
And my main intrest was not this, it was what other items are out there that are essentially just normal items? |
Cyberqat Inner circle You can tell I work on the net from my 2209 Posts |
I think that's a question that shouldn't be answered, as it is tantamount to giving away the magic use of that item and, as others say, if you can't figure that out yourself then you should pay the guy who did.
A good illusion is a good illusion and is worth something. A bad illusion is a bad illusion and isn't worth anything. This is true wherever the props come from. Are cups and balls worthless just because the are exactly what they look line and could be performed with pretty much any cup by someone who knew what they were doing? You need to look at the illusion as performed and decide to you if the result is worth the price. if it is, then buy it. If it isn't then don't.
It is always darkest just before you are eaten by a grue.
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Dick Christian Inner circle Northern Virginia (Metro DC) 2619 Posts |
IMO the bottom line has nothing whatever to do with what it cost the person who created and is marketing it. The point is that he/she thought of it and I didn't. The only cost issue of interest to me is the comparison between what I have to pay to get it and what it is worth to me as a performer to have it. I am happy to pay hundreds of $$ for something that may have cost its creator only pennies to produce if I will recoup more than what I paid for it the first time I use it in a show.
Dick Christian
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GhostSurfer Loyal user 224 Posts |
I had an effect in the early eighties by Ben Harris, I think. A couple of brass keys and a permanent marker. An 'X' on one key transposes to the specs. previously-shown blank key. Genius stuff. The keys were not made by Ben and neither was the marker; the only thing which was Ben's was the brilliant idea...
On the other side of the fence was Supreme Magic. You only had to trawl through their 3 catalogs back in the day to see effect upon effect based on 'normal' items - unfortunately, 99% of it was utter garbage. GS |
lokikross Special user An Undying Heart of Chaos; Stabbed with 719 Posts |
You are paying for someone's hard work just like any product. Jordan's cost less than 30$ to make, but sell for almost 200$.
I myself am working on a utility device that may run 30$-50$ to build from some obscure, but available items. And if it does what I think it will, I will easily sell the units for $250+. It's all about what you can do with it. And I love the Walmart Vs. Staples comment. It is funny because I think Shadow, or Chris Rose put me onto Frixion pens, I did not know it was an "effect", but thought it was a "find". I do know that when they recently put a Hobby Lobby in Vegas, Bizarro saw it and wept like a child. Joyous. |
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