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S2000magician Inner circle Yorba Linda, CA 3465 Posts |
Quote:
On 2010-12-27 13:50, Lance Pierce wrote: It's a lot more than two-fold. Those are certainly contributing factors, but what really distinguishes bridge from chess is uncertainty in the position. In chess, the state of the board is the state of the board, and it's fully known to the participants. In bridge, the state of the deal is rarely known to any participant. In chess you may not know what your opponent intends to do, but the possibilities are limited and the starting position is known. In bridge, you not only don't know what your opponent intends to do, you frequently don't know know what he's already done. (And, in my experience, it's even worse trying to figure out what your partner's already done!) It's hard to gauge how far to jump and in which direction if you don't know where you're going, or even where you're starting. |
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MagicJuggler Inner circle Anchorage, AK 1161 Posts |
Interestingly enough, one of the reasons for teaching computers how to play chess in the first place was to develop a better thinking computer that could solve complex problems. While successful in one regard it didn't achieve all that was hoped in developing a more complex AI. Teaching computers how to play poker however, has helped progress the development of AI much further by teaching the computer how to deal with unknown varaibles and make a guess as to the next best step to take. Of course this has been a difficult task for programmers, because poker is rife with deceptions and manipulations. Computers deal much better with hard facts, and are unable to interpret effectively when someone is bluffing.
Matthew Olsen
I heard from a friend that anecdotal evidence is actually quite reliable. |
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S2000magician Inner circle Yorba Linda, CA 3465 Posts |
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On 2011-01-03 04:31, MagicJuggler wrote: Bridge even more so. A bluff at poker is child's play compared to a bluff at bridge. |
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captainsmiffy Special user UK, resident UAE 589 Posts |
Brilliant timing on the thread....I recently flew into Prague and bought my son a hexagonal chess board for 3 players! Anyone sure of how the pieces are supposed to move and what the rules are? The Czech-English rules translated leave a lot to be desired! Cheers
Martyn
Have you tried 'Up The Ante' yet?? The ultimate gambling demo....a self-working wonder! See the reviews here on the cafe.
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ASW Inner circle 1879 Posts |
There is no direct correlation between chess and card magic. However, the chances of a cardman being into chess are exponentially increased if he happens to be a nerd generally or is yet to have acquired a girlfriend.
Whenever I find myself gripping anything too tightly I just ask myself "How would Guy Hollingworth hold this?"
A magician on the Genii Forum "I would respect VIPs if they respect history." Hideo Kato |
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MagicJuggler Inner circle Anchorage, AK 1161 Posts |
I guess that would make for a pretty high ratio then
Matthew Olsen
I heard from a friend that anecdotal evidence is actually quite reliable. |
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kerpa Special user Michael Miller 594 Posts |
Reuben Fine, a chess grandmaster as well as a psychologist, wrote a book on psychology in chess. Very little in misdirection, if any, more about the symbolism Fine thought he found (I did not think it was a very good book).
There has been research on what makes a player a grandmaster - in short, superior pattern recognition. The only analogy I can think of for magic, is the superior pattern recognition professional magicians have in dealing with spectators. That's a stretch, too. Here's something no one has mentioned that chess shares completely with magic - the knight's tour! The only difference is that when chessplayers demonstrate th eknight's tour, a big deal is made about their visual memory being the driving force, whereas magicians **hide** that fact (at least I think they do - I've never seen any magician's demonstration - has anyone seen Ricky Jay's knight tour? How was it presented?) George Koltanowski, a charming wonderful grandmaster who settled in San Francisco, would do knight tours where each square was given the name of a different world city! One last convergence of chess and magic: the chess automaton of the late 1700s was supposedly a chess robot seated behind a cabinet with a chess board in it. A chess master was hidden in the cabinet, and the doors of the cabinet would be open to reveal - only some springs and machinery, but you could see through to the back. The mechanism that hid the chess master used the basic principles of a small sliding platform exposed (hilariously, I might add) by Penn and Teller in one of their routines (about a rocket man, I think, but correct me if I'm wrong). A lot of people were duped in that era into thinking a chess machine had really been invented.
Michael Miller
(Michael Merlin: original family --and stage-- name) |
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phread Elite user md 486 Posts |
The only valid connection twixt chess and any kind of magic is if you happen to do both. success in chess is directly related to the knowledge, understanding, and pattern recognition of the chess players. success in magic depends upon the observer not having knowledge of what is happening...2 completely different endeavors. both are also a great deal of fun!!!
Deckless Wonder
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rawdawg Special user Southern California 686 Posts |
I once played a friend of mine who always thought just because he was good at one thing in life, he was just as good at anything else. I played him for 5 bucks a game and took him 12 straight. He never inkled on to why certain pieces kept strategically changing position during a game. He was also very fond of 40 oz. Mickey's, so...
One time, when I was young, I botched a sleight so bad, Vernon, Marlo & Miller rolled over in their graves. But I didn't see Elmsley, probably because he was behind the others.
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ASW Inner circle 1879 Posts |
Quote:
On 2011-01-03 13:06, MagicJuggler wrote: Res Ipsa Loquitur!
Whenever I find myself gripping anything too tightly I just ask myself "How would Guy Hollingworth hold this?"
A magician on the Genii Forum "I would respect VIPs if they respect history." Hideo Kato |
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Russell Davidson Inner circle Hampshire, England 1108 Posts |
Misdirection & chess are not linked. I play chess to IM level & can say that if your opponent is misdirected in a game then that would be their doing & not your own. Chess at a high level is all about space & time & although there can be some psychology involved there isn't misdirection as we know it.
To be a great chess player you have to be - 1) Mad 2) Devious 3) Reasonably agressive The only comparisions between magic & chess I can see is that they both require a lifetimes dedication to reach a high level. And you never stop learning. Perhaps it is this never stop learning element that attracts us. |
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MagicJuggler Inner circle Anchorage, AK 1161 Posts |
Apart from arguing about all sorts of vague comparisons that can be made on a very general level about the psychology of the two(which I think I've already done), is that those that study cards very indepth tend to be a bit intellectual, and chess is an intellectual game which tends to attract those of an intellectual nature. It's more fun to play the better you get. The better I get with cards, the more enjoyment I get from practicing slight of hand. It's engaging and makes you think. There's a strong element of problems solving inherent in both. Many magicians are also attracted to puzzles, and while there can be argued a lot more similarity between magic and puzzles (as well as the lamentation of those that see how often excellent magic effects are reduced to mere puzzles by magicians that can't seem to see the difference) the main commonality between all of them is that they involve a certain amount of problem solving skills, and that superior knowlege and skill is rewarded. All things that attract those that are or consider themselves intellectual.
Matthew Olsen
I heard from a friend that anecdotal evidence is actually quite reliable. |
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Lance Pierce Special user 878 Posts |
I think card magic is EXACTLY like chess...when chess is played with cards and something amazing happens every few seconds.
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