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panlives Inner circle 2087 Posts |
"Is there any point to which you would wish to draw my attention?"
"To the curious incident of the dog in the night-time." "The dog did nothing in the night-time." "That was the curious incident," remarked Sherlock Holmes. |
Woland Special user 680 Posts |
The problem with this theory is that the modern red & white imagery of Santa Claus, in fact most of the imagery of Santa Claus on which the theory depends, was invented in early XIXth century America, not in the tundras of the north where the shamans and reindeer play.
Woland |
Magnus Eisengrim Inner circle Sulla placed heads on 1053 Posts |
Did you read the article Woland? No mention is made of legends, except for "For humans a common side-effect of mushrooms is the feeling of flying, so it's interesting the legend about Santa's reindeer is they can fly."
Sheesh.
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned; The best lack all conviction, while the worst Are full of passionate intensity.--Yeats |
Woland Special user 680 Posts |
My Dear Magnus,
Sheesh indeed. Yes I did read the cited article, but a more complete account of the "theory," if that's what you want to call it, can be found on the NPR website, here. There was also an article in 2003, in the "Cannabis Culture" magazine, which you can find here. First of all, I confess I don't understand this comment at all: Quote:
Did you read the article Woland? No mention is made of legends, except for "For humans a common side-effect of mushrooms is the feeling of flying, so it's interesting the legend about Santa's reindeer is they can fly." Where in my post did you find I had anything to say about any legends? In the NPR article, you will find a more complete exposition of the "theory," viz: Quote:
Look at the Christmas decorations here, he said. There's the red & white imagery clearly spelled out. And it is that red & white imagery which dates back no farther than the early XIXth century. In the United States. The cannabis enthusiasts' article is, unsurprisingly, a bit more fanciful and far-fetched. They try to tie in the World Tree of Nordic mythology with the shamanism of the north asian steppes, and include a number of I think mistaken and certainly unsubstantiated statements about the character of St. Nicholas in history and western culture. Apparently it was a practice among some people who used amanita muscaria to feed the mushrooms to reindeer, and to imbibe the reindeer's urine as the intoxicant, rather than use the mushroom itself. This probably allowed for more careful calibration of the dose. But I don't think you can work your way back to there from Santa Claus. The point is, there is no continuous tradition associating St. Nicholas with reindeer, and there is likewise no ancient tradition of St. Nicholas flying through the sky dispensing presents or coals to good and bad children, respectively. Those are recent inventions, and largely attributable, as the NPR article points out, to Clement Moore: Quote:
Now some say that certain stories are simply too wondrous to question in this magical season. Others have no such compunction, like Ronald Hutton, a history professor at the University of Bristol. I prefer the Cajun version, myself, in which the Old Elf travels in a flying pirogue pulled by alligators who have wonderful old French names: Quote:
Twas the night before Christmas an' all t'ru de house, But to each his own. Woland |
Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27297 Posts |
For those who like such things: http://vimeo.com/17911948
from here: http://journal.neilgaiman.com/ And maybe Rare Exports will play locally too
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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Magnus Eisengrim Inner circle Sulla placed heads on 1053 Posts |
Woland.
The OP liked to a very short article, quoting a biologist named Andrew Haynes. The entire article follows: Quote:
A scientist claims reindeer deliberately eat magic mushrooms to escape the monotony of dreary long winters. You responded: Quote:
The problem with this theory is that the modern red & white imagery of Santa Claus, in fact most of the imagery of Santa Claus on which the theory depends, was invented in early XIXth century America, not in the tundras of the north where the shamans and reindeer play. I saw no connection between the OP and your response, and said so. In response to me, you quote an NPR article that quotes Donald Pfister talking about a book by R. Gordon Wasson which argues for a connection between mushrooms and Santa. To further bolster your claim you quote a Cannabis Culture article (I would never have guessed that you were a subscriber) that contains no references whatsoever; I have no idea how that article refers to the OP. Maybe you had the NPR and CC articles in mind. But why in the word would you think than anyone else in the thread did? The OP was about stoned reindeer. John
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned; The best lack all conviction, while the worst Are full of passionate intensity.--Yeats |
Woland Special user 680 Posts |
Curiosity.
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