I find it a strain really to fit message and routine together. My big problem with most gospel magic is that it can all appear too twee (overly cute). Either the magic or the message is diminished. I only have one really good (my opinion) 'Gospel Routine' involving the old iodine/water trick.

So, what comes first for you - the message or the routine? How do you ensure that both are not weakened or cheapened?

Duane Laflin, in his book "Greater Gospel Magic" recommends that the magic suit the message - but not all effects must be
"Gospel" effects. Perhaps only one or two in a show.

I think this implies that the message should be chosen first (usually). However some effects pretty much suggest their own message - e.g. torn and restored, cut and restored. There are lots of opportunities for gospel magic "oneliners", too. The most quoted book in the world is - I believe - is the Bible.

Some examples, "in the twinkling of an eye
...we will be changed." (Spellbound move)

"And... he will separate the sheep from the goats" (Matthew 25:32) any effect where intermixed cards, nuts and bolts, colored rocks are "magically" divided.

"Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall trouble or hardship or persecution or famine or nakedness or danger or sword?" [Romans 8:35] - any routine in which separated items are rejoined (e.g. 20th Century Silks)

Of course, the Gospel message should NOT be trivialized as it is not a trivial message! I believe that is the spirit in which you wrote the first post.

I am increasingly coming to the conclusion that the best way is to use the magic as a 'platform' for sharing the gospel. ie good magical presentation followed by sharing the Gospel.

I agree Simon.

That doesn't mean that you have to leave God, and scripture, etc. out of what you do magically, but the Burden of presenting the Gospel should not, in my opinion be left soley to the response to your performance of a magic effect. So I "seed" my performances with "God talk" and the occasional effect with "message". Doing that allows anyone who is totally offended by God talk to get away before I finish performing.

For me, magic works well as an attention getter, a conversation starter. And when I have earned the interest of the audience (one or a few..) I can share what is really important in life. (this one, and thereafter...)

But having said all of that. Different methods and different means communicate with different people. And I guess if God could use a Donkey (can't use the word here..) to talk to someone, he can use all of us, even if our styles are different.

I venture to say that the message that brought me to the faith, was not delivered by the same person, or in the same style, or circumstances that brought many others... So I am just saying that we all have a job to do. And there are plenty of different means to accomplishing it.

Do what works for you! In this case, it works for me too! But even if it didn't, I would say do what works for you!

God Bless!

Brodavid

I have found - just trial and error - that performing the effect first and then moving to a message from it works best for me. There is usually some beauty of the effect that is lingering that can serve as a gospel segue - torn and restored has been mentioned. After a "penetration" or a "solid through solid" like the "ring and rope" I say something like "If there is any charm or beauty in that effect it is that this rope could not imprison or capture this ring. That's one of the things people have been fascinated by with Jesus. Jesus was free of all the things which trap us, and bind us, and kill us. Jesus was free and he went about setting other people free. Even death couldn't hold him. He broke through the final barrier and the deepest bondage and he promises the same for all those who would trust him savingly.

Hi Simon,

You ask a very good question, and there have been some really wonderful responses given!

Many people in our LA chapter of the Fellowship of Christian Magicians (shameless plug) have asked the exact same question that you did.... what comes first, "the message or the routine?". If you're like me (I know I am), you have some trouble finding a message to fit nicely with one of your favorite tricks.

Imagine your Pastor calling you on a Saturday night. He gives you a scripture verse that he will be preaching on tomorrow morning and wants you to perform a magic trick to illustrate it. Does your mouth do this?

Barney Kinard has lectured on just that situation. His lecture is called The Trick Brain and it provides a logical method of analyzing a scripture verse and deciding which effect would best fit it. Conversely, it also teaches how to inventory your magic effects and determine which scriptures best fit them.

We've asked Barney to create a book for gospel magicians based on this lecture and it may happen this year. Someone has also approached Barney to produce a video tape of this lecture too. I think Barney's method would be a big help to people.

Barney's website can be found at http://www.kidhelper.com

Hope that helps a little.

In His Service,

Joe Marotta

For clarification, let me state that "The Trick Brain" is a book by Dariel Fitzkee.

Barney Kinard has taken Mr. Fitzkee's work and expanded upon it specifically to aid Christians in creating "gospel magic". Barney's presentation will be of value to anyone wanting to learn how to adapt your magic tricks to the gospel message, and how to analyze scriptures to determine which tricks best fit them.

I just wanted to be sure that I gave credit where credit was due. I apologize for any confusion I may have caused.

Joe Marotta

I find it easier to start with the message and find a routine that suits it.

If I start with the routine, the message sometimes sounds like it's been "shoehorned" into it (which, in retrospect, it HAS been).

If I start with the message and use the magic as an illustration, it seems to "fit" better and doesn't mess up the flow of the message.

Works for me.

After finishing a show last night by our local FCM members, And of the 3 of us that did the stage performances, (we each did two 15 min sets) we were all totally different in material, personna, and performance.

Afterwards we began to talk about some of the messages and effects, and where did that come from, etc.

And this isssue kept coming up. Some ideas came from other performers, and some came from books (Greater Gospel by Duane Laflin, etc) and other things just came to us. It works differently for different people.

For me, I pick up an effect, and it just seems to remind me of something about God. Sometimes it is a verse, or other times it is an attribute of God, or else it could be a prinicipal, a condition of life, etc.

For example, I got the effect "An Elephant Fly" in a box of magic I bought, and looked at it, laughed and tossed it aside. But our show was for a teen-25 crowd and I was looking for something "different", so I got it out and read the patter; circus, elephant fly, yada yada. and thought "that is really lame"; first you have two separate circles. Then you have two circles linked, and then you have one large circle.... OK, what would work for this group, and then I said "thank you Jesus!, first - before we know God, we are like this; separated from God (two separate loops). Then when we accept Christ, we are like this; Connected with God, (two linked loops) but then! When He returns, or we go to be with him, we will be ONE with him. (One large single loop.)

Lots of other patter went into the performance, but you get the idea. That is the way it works for me. Understand the effect and then apply it where it fits. But I don't try to force a Verse on it, as I don't think God's word is less important in princial than it is verse. In other words, I don't need to show that I know every verse of the Bible by Heart (Sadly, I have to admit that I DON'T! but even if I did, I wouldn't think it appropriate to try to
"show out", on it) I Just try to think constantly about God, in the largest posible context. Then for me, everything around me begins to remind of something about God!

At least that is how it works for me. He really is Everywhere!

BroDavid

I agree with Geoff, start with the message, then find a suitable trick. Sometimes the effect may be altered fractionally, or the impact of the effect diluted, because the message is really more important than the trick. This approach goes for all "messages" whether they be gospel, company, product, etc...

re;
Imagine your Pastor calling you on a Saturday night. He gives you a scripture verse that he will be preaching on tomorrow morning and wants you to perform a magic trick to illustrate it. Does your mouth do this?

It's never going to happen to me, but I'd be inclined to say, "Sorry, give me more notice next time, and I will!"
Paul.