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Simon (Ted) Edwards Inner circle London 1528 Posts |
You've changed your argument, which is great. It makes much more sense now.
Here is what I believe to be a fair summary of the discussion developing: Jim said, "Is it really the mods responsibility to protect information/presentations and or ideas of others? No it not. It is ours/yours." You said, "No, it is the mods." Iain said, "B@lls." I said, "Responsibility for individual actions lie with the criminals, not the authorities." You said, "Responsibility is NOT the same thing as being responsible. This fact undermines your argument." I said, "Whichever way you define it, the mods don't make anyone publish exposing posts. And they can't stop us from sending exposers to Coventry." You said, "Exposure happens. I blame the mods; as well as blaming the gunman." |
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Deano88 Veteran user Lincolnshire UK 377 Posts |
Quote:
On 2011-06-02 22:26, Jim-Callahan wrote: Jim firstly I think your being a little harsh, I see your frustrations , and I know feel maybe I should not of responded to such a post and give it notice that it does not deserve, too many newbies to mentalism want to be 'Derren Brown' with out finding there own from performing there own stuff in there own style , My interest was with the challenge manuscript by Kennedy, that I now understood came with whisper , not that I feel I have to answer to you on that score. What would have solved this argument was if someone had deleted it as soon as it was put up , then there would be no need for this, and your particular outburst. On a personal note I think the holy grail does not lie within the effect but within the performance the moment between you are your participant or audience and the feeling that you give them, the method is irrelevant if you create such wonder and astonishment in the minds and hearts of others, as without that there would be no magic within this medium on any other medium. Dean |
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Jim-Callahan V.I.P. 5018 Posts |
Dean,
I do understand how you might interpret my post as being harsh and why you would do so. The post I made was going to be the topic of its own thread. However it was happenstance that this thread appeared to serve as an example of the problem. You last paragraph is quite good and I agree with you. Best Wishes, Jim H.o.A-X
“I can make Satan’s devils dance like fine gentlemen across the stage of reality”.
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Ben Harris V.I.P. The Land Down Under 2126 Posts |
Cheers, Jim.
I love it when we can find common ground. Respect... Benny
+Inventor of the world famous Floating Match+
+Author: Machinations (Vanishing Inc, 2020)+ EVERYTHING BEN HARRIS |
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Deano88 Veteran user Lincolnshire UK 377 Posts |
Quote:
On 2011-06-03 15:45, Jim-Callahan wrote: Hi Jim As I hope I said its not that I disagree with you at all, I look forward to reading your thread when you do so, and I mean that in a good way, I think I agree with Ben in that we do have level ground the majority on here do and do appreciate the art, there a few as is with everything. Iam glad you like the last paragraph, I think people need reminding from time to time , I know I do myself when iam more concerned with acquiring new tricks, when the books on my shelf have hundreds that have not been experimented with, Best wishes to yourself Thanks again Dean |
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Sock Puppet Monkey Loyal user 235 Posts |
Quote:
On 2011-06-02 19:31, Jim-Callahan wrote: Now that doesn't sound too petty does it? I'm curious how long Jim is planning on holding a grudge against someone who just didn't like his work. Given that Criss Angel is highly successful and known the world over and Jim's here with the rest of us posting at the Café. I for one have absolutely no pipe dreams about how much better I am at magic than anyone else. |
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Dreadnought Special user Athens, Georgia 836 Posts |
Quote:
On 2011-06-03 09:31, Thomas Cooper wrote: In philosophical reasoning, this is really dangerous thinking, on any level. What you are saying is that the individual is not responsible for their actions, therefore; the end justifies the means. The distinguished Mr. Callahan is absolutely correct. We need to be careful about what we say and how we say it, because it is, on some level, no matter how trivial, an exposure of the art. When someone says in open forum, "You should read Whatever by X" then the entire world now has the opportunity to learn that secret. The responsibility to guard against exposure is the individual's the SAM and IBM code says so. I personally think SAM and IBM should start sending out death squads to deal with those that expose. But I'll simply settle for the jerking of people's memberships.
Peace
"Ave Maria gratia plena Dominus tecum..." Scott Would you do anything for the person you love? |
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Davit Sicseek Inner circle 1818 Posts |
I don't know what I'd do if I lost my SAM or IBM membership.
The truth of the matter is that there is a responsibility on both individual posters and the Café moderators. This isn't a difficult thing to grasp. TO use the theft example mentioned here - clearly the individual has the responsbility not to be a naughty theif, if they are unwilling or unable to live up to that standard then it becomes the responsibility of the police to enforce that standard on them. Enforcing the standard by the police in regards to theft or the moderators here in regard to exposure does not absolve the actions of the theif or exposer.
Send me the truth: davitsicseek@gmail.com
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Dreadnought Special user Athens, Georgia 836 Posts |
Quote:
On 2011-06-10 09:11, Davit Sicseek wrote: :thumbsup:
Peace
"Ave Maria gratia plena Dominus tecum..." Scott Would you do anything for the person you love? |
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espmagic Special user 978 Posts |
>>We need to be careful about what we say and how we say it, because it is, on some level, no matter how trivial, an exposure of the art. When someone says in open forum, "You should read Whatever by X" then the entire world now has the opportunity to learn that secret. <<
So, then, how did you learn anything about our art? Through the exposure (in written form) of a secret that allowed you to enjoy it, and then resesarch it (through more exposure). Actually, the secrets are located where anyone can find them: the internet. The question we should be asking is: how many people who read/surf the Café are interested in magic, and how many are trying to find a solution to a problem (read: a secret)? Bottom line is that we are so busy worrying about protecting a secret (any secret) that we forget that them knowing the secret doesn't mean it will take food off of our tables. In this day and age our version of a secret society means very little, if anything, because we don't care about the secrets anymore. When I was told that the infamous one-ahead had been published on the back of a cereal box, I was not worried that a six year old would approach me after a show and tell me they knew how it was done...and even if they told their parents, if they were entertained, then no harm done. Lee |
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Sean Giles Inner circle Cambridge/ UK 3517 Posts |
One ahead was published on the back of a cereal box? Wow. I've never seen that on the back of my Coco Pops
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johnnyl New user 57 Posts |
Quote:
On 2011-07-10 00:55, espmagic wrote: Its a tough one this. I think if the ordinary public realise how effects are done then they are at least partially de-valued. There is less of a wow factor. I guess that the solution is though to keep ahead of the game with new effects or cleverly presented re-packaged / disguised old effects. |
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johnnyl New user 57 Posts |
Quote:
On 2011-06-02 13:50, J.Prager wrote: can this be purchased or is it pretty secretive?? |
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McCoy Regular user Scotland 136 Posts |
Surely what mags perceive as the "holy grail" is completely different to what specs would perceive as a "perfect show/performance/trick"? A spec will view a perfect ACAAN with much less respect than say a really slick stage metamorphosis, or a deep Q&A by a good mentalist.
Context is everything. |
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migwar Elite user west yorkshire, UK 457 Posts |
I was re watching the DB show ENIGMA last night. The granddads box effect to me was so well presented and connected so well with the spectators. The mechanics of the effect didn't interest me one bit. It was so captivating.
Showed me the hows shouldn't even get a look in if the presentation is down well. |
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McCoy Regular user Scotland 136 Posts |
Agreed. Creativity trumps knowledge. For me, anyway.
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samzilla New user 10 Posts |
Bump. Is this effect available anywhere? The Challenge manuscript isn't available anymore by my understanding.
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