I'm sorry to see that so many people on the internet cannot seriously respond to serious questions and issues. Perhaps it's because I'm studying Communication Digital Media.. but I also talk to nice people on the web who do not, so the cause of the problem remains unknown to me.

I have posted on other threads if you look properly although none has yet sparked my interest as much as this one. I joined here recently and this thread is one I got more involved in than others. It likely has a lot to do with the fact that I was learning a move by Mark; hence this thread and others about Mark were not surprisingly interesting and relevant to me. You can extract out of that whatever you wish, but there is nothing more to it than that. I actually first came here due to being a fan of Craig Petty and David Penn's "Wizard Product Review" on youtube, in which they had mentioned "the Café" a few times. That is how I ended up here and I was a lurker in their forum well before I started browsing the wider forum or contributing anything to it. But carry on thinking its all a big setup and I'm in fact Mark's mum if you like. I do look good in a dress, so bring it on!

Excuse me if any other questions/accusations have been made and I do not respond to them; I have not read most of the more recent posts as this whole thing has got very tedious.

Probably because you and your cohorts make responding to those "serious" questions and issues extrmely painful, tediuous and frustrating.
But of course, it couldn't be you. Must be everyone else....

Wait...do I detect the smell of a burning martyr????

This is boring and I'm done. I'll let you guy(s) have the last word. Have fun.

The only thing that is painful, tedious and frustrating is that this thread has become a soviet style kangaroo court against Mystery Mark. The initial charge was that his videos relied heavily on some type of editing software - then Fin shows up and says of the things that can be downloaded that the Bertram Shadow change is the real deal. He goes further and posts a video that proves the change is in fact possible and not some sort of video trick and then suddenly hell's a poppin. From Mr. Musgrave's dire warnings to Mr. Youell's heavy handed diatribes, no one seemed interested in plucking down the buck fifty to have a look for themselves. Well, based on Fin's efforts I thought 1.50 was a reasonable risk/investment to find out for myself and I have to say I thought it is a terrific item that deserves the time and effort to make it sing. The mechanics and the thinking behind it are stellar. What's more, Mystery Mark clearly proved his distractors wrong by offering something that, although difficult, was not the result of any video tampering. Having said that, I cannot prove or disprove that M.M's former efforts were real or not and frankly I don't care. Since no one who has purchased his previous efforts has come forward complaining about false advertising etc. etc, it would seem to me that anything that anyone says would be arguing from ignorance. What can be said is that what he is offering now is well worth the money and the time and effort to make it look good. Thank you Fin for leading the charge and thank you Mark for your splendid creation.


Most Kindly

Bonedaddi

As it happens I did go to the site, messaged requesting the item in question and received an email reply that the item is not available.

Since the OP was asking for methods for a commercial (if not available) item I left the matter of Mark's methods there and focused on the effect.

Some on this thread have attempted to distract from the OP's request about the nature of the method(s) used in the video linked by digressing to other offerings from that site. That's off topic and offers nothing to the OP as regards the item they asked about.

I'll leave the matter of the product in the OP's question till when it's available.

Before anyone accuses me of being some kind of operative I bought the item, the Bertram Shadow change, while it was available (it was for some time) - I think it is in keeping with Mark's philosophy that his items are only for sale for a limited time. Regardless, I paid the 1.50 (I also picked up his splendid Repulse Control - which is still available and I feel well worth the price) and I can only say that what he is offering is of high quality and not faked.

Kindly

Bonedaddi

Opinions vary....

Wow! calm down guys

just got everything off his shop, the two magic exposure is quite hard and the repulse control is amazing, still downloading the interception video.
even though I might not use the repulse control or the other efects which they sold, I have learnt a lot of ideas and sleights which will be very useful in teh future, I am darn sure about that

Here are my two cents : religion. Did religion never taught you a thing Mark ?

If you want to believe, stop trying to prove the belief.
The more you will try to prove that your effects are real (with no simple piece of evidence as usual), the more you will discredit yourself.

SO :

Stop rubbing your impossible-looking effects in the face of magicians if you want to remain underground by selling 10 copies in the world. Stop hyping. Stop trying to be famous and well-known. You are insulting generations of giants here, just by behaving like you do, wether your effects are real or not.

@every non-Mark-slaved person here :
stop talking about him, he loves posts like this, he doesn't responds to us but only writes for the simpleton who googled his name to get more information about him and his "magic" and the fact that it is (or not) legitimate. Ignoring mark is the best weapon against this too-many-years-lasting buzz.

I've gotten to know Mark pretty well since the Bertram debacle, and I have seen him perform live on webcam many times now. His skills do indeed reflect the videos he has put out, and the "mystery" totally disappears once you've seen him wearing shorts! At one stage he even performed an impromptu version of his controversial "phantom" for me, and in all seriousness I was VERY impressed and can totally see how a non-impromptu version is well within the realms of reality. But, then his right arm fell off and sparks and some smoke started coming out of his left ear. I was left stunned and in shock, a true "believer".

I have been lucky enough to meet several well-known magicians through the internet. I'm far from being some star-struck Mystery-Mark-only fanboy and I would stick up for anyone else if I thought the wrong picture was being painted of them. The fact is that all the people who say he's a fraud are simply ignorant of his methods. It is that simple, and it reminds me just how wonderful it is to be so badly fooled. I can speak from personal experience of having seen him perform LIVE many times. None of those who speak badly of him can say the same. The only option they are left with is to then move on from Mark to me.. or anyone else who sticks up for him. We all must be on a payroll, fanboys, or just fantasy prone, right? How dare he produce videos, fool magicians, and then not explain himself. It's just not cricket!

The.Amazing.Boy, if your opinion is that ignoring Mark is the best weapon against him I have to laugh at the fact that you have bumped this months-old thread, hence bringing more attention to something you feel deserves none.

...

Fin, you just didn't get a word of what I said, added a layer of I-believe-in-Mark-and-you-don't-but-it's-ok-because-you-don't-get-his-methods on top of the thread and THEN responded to the only part of the message that was NOT directed to you, in an attempt to mock me. In fact, my first post describes well what you're doing, thank you for making my point.

Now I beg you : read again my above post and think twice.

Get me Chris Kenner, Homer Liwag, Penn & Teller, Garett Thomas, ... or whatever knowledgable and famous magician (you get the idea) to tell loudly enough on this board that Mark is a real performer able to do his material on demand in front of anyone and I'll get back all I may have said about Mark. If Mark is the real deal, then you should have no difficulties to do that as his effects are just unbelievable. He has many well-known magician contacts on facebook now, but still, good luck on that.


When you are right on a simple fact, proving you are is so easy. I don't get why Mark messes around so much. Is he preparing a thesis in psychology ? That would be one
respectable ending to this.


This will be my FIRST and LAST message directed to you, as being a "webcam Mark witness" with 55 posts - (added to the fact that fake profiles on a board is nothing new) - does not make you the one we will want to listen to or trust on such a criticizable matter.

Have a nice day.

I am against the overly commercialized art and thereby I am against hyping things. I do not hype myself or my effects, yet you do. In what world are we living that haters hype performers more than the performers themselves? There where the most popular magic companies put out trailers and teasers, we at DarkSleightZ do not. We merely put uncut performances and put links in the descriptions in case we sell either the secrets or in-depth tutorials, for whoever is interested.

I also do not just perform for magicians. My first audience on YouTube was a lay audience who just supported my piano videos. It was until later that magicians got interested in my stuff, and once again it were those magicians who hyped everything, not me. I don't rub tricks in people their faces, I don't need to prove myself and I allow everyone to believe whatever they want, I never ask people to subscribe to my YouTube channel, I don't just ask everyone to check out me or my channel, nor to comment or like my videos. I am just another performer who happens to create original effects and variations and who shares some of them in videos on the web. I really don't see any of the bad behavior you are talking about.

You, on the other hand, are ignoring every bit of evidence there is, including but not limited to the evidence in this very thread of people who have bought my effects and who can tell they are not fake or altered in any way. For some reason every hater and disbeliever shares this same sort of know-it-all factor, which you think outdoes that of anyone else. Gladly there are people with more social skills and more respect towards the art though, who figured it was not all that difficult to just hook up with me and to have some great chats in which a lot of knowledge was shared. Sorry, but I am not going to have you keep the art from evolving.

I'm going to respond as if you did not write these insulting and egoistisch sentences. Up to that point your post was respectful and reasonable.


You need to accept criticism because all we say, regardless to the sarcasms or stupidities that may have been said, is legitimate. We cannot just tell ourselves that you are a real performer without having seen you perform and it has nothing to do with your philosophy around product selling. Critics always burst in front of good effects.

You seem to use very old marketism techniques ignoring the fact that some of us on the board may know about marketism. If you are honestly not, you should really re-work and re-think how you deal with all this, because some people feel offended.

Do not call us disbelievers. It has nothing to do with believing.

Do not call us haters. It is a strong word and we only talk about your magic because we care. I personnally love your effects and worked a long time on smooth 360 (regardless to wether it is a real trick or not) because I thought it was a good exercise to work on. I designed my own version, which is not as good looking but I found new ideas for other effects while doing so. But I still don't accept your effects as real and performable tricks. Anyway, I still love the effects, they are a great example of what magic should look like and I would love to be proven wrong.

You said once that your effects are often using classic or well known ideas/techniques. Did you ever thought about crediting ? It might have saved a lot of ink and less people would have reacted.

Please admit that we cannot believe you. It has no sense.

I am sorry but you gave me no reason to reply nicely based on your previous posts which were rather insulting towards Fin, me and pretty much everyone who supports me. Apparently my post helped though, because the tone of voice in your latest post is much more reasonable. Thank you.

I welcome all criticism, but I don't see how any of what you said is actual criticism nor did you say or imply anything that could or should be done in order to improve on things, apart from whatever I already do, which doesn't make your posts very helpful. Let's be honest here, you only think like this because you haven't seen me perform live. Now is that actually me to blame? I really doubt that because you have had the opportunity but you ignored it.

I honestly could not care less about people doubting or disbelieving my tricks or video performances and who feel the need to post negative, non-constructive posts on forum boards, only later on showing they are doubters rather than haters. Yes, the term 'hater' may be strong, but if you call my supporters 'slaves' I think calling you a 'hater' is not half as strong as it should have been. And since you do not believe my tricks, you are a disbeliever towards them. Don't worry, there is nothing religious about that term in this case (and it was you yourself who brought up religion in case that matters).

I am very glad my tricks inspire you though, much appreciated. But I am not very fund of your attitude, and that is just me being honest, maybe it is just me. But in your previous posts you kept saying I did things which I really didn't do, and now you even say I don't credit while I definitely do that. I do not see how false assumptions (or simply bad research) make your posts reliable or helpful in anyway. Basically you say I don't do anything wrong.

Tell me what exactly you think I should improve on, then we may discuss things.

I never really talked about religion, it was an image, a comparison because it is a good example of a belief-based construction. So I compaired your network to it, to bring an idea to the table. I am myself not a religious person.

Then, I'm sure you know that you have a very controversal reputation on the web and I have no other example of such a thing on the magic field. Based on that unique fact, don't you think you may need to think things through again ? You're obviously the only one here to know what you're doing. Isn't that strange that so many magicians are irritated or upset each time you appear on a board ? Tell me if you really think that the solution to all this or the proof that we are wrong does need to come from us ? Am I the right person to find such proof/solution ? I do not think so.


We all want to improve the art. We all want to work together. Don't settle apart and pretend we are provoking the nice, casual and simple magician you want us all to see.



Let's put it in a nutshell : There are two main things that irritates me, that need improvement if you like.

1) You are new to the field and act as if we were ignorants, as if you only knew how to improve the art WHEN you are in front of people who have doubts. This is disrespectful to the performers that made this magic world possible since our doubts are legitimate.

2) If we want to accept you as a real performer, we have to believe you eyes closed. No one does that here. There is no other reliable person we can refer to just to get some feedback on you as a performer.


Finally, just by stating the 2) I think this debate has reached a dead end but it was years ago and this is why we are still talking about it. So unless you bring something new, some transparency to the table, I do not see why we are still talking.

If you ever come to France (north), I would be pleased to meet you for a magic session. Don't hesitate to contact me.

I know I have a controversial reputation, but I also know it's not half as controversial as it used to be. A big reason is that people couldn't get their heads around the way we sold products and as seen in your first post in here, you couldn't either. From a commercialized point of view I could understand that, so quite some months ago we decided to start selling download-ables and pretty much immediately a major shift occurred, which is pretty well explained by bonedaddi above if you would leave out his observation to this very thread.

It is not that I ever intended things to end up controversially either. Your earlier posts implied that it is all part of some marketing strategy but I really just let things happen as explained. From my point of view, the controversy all and only comes from magicians who didn't have an answer to me, who didn't or still don't know what to think of me. Half of them lean towards one way, just as many including yourself lean towards the other way, but both groups shrunk dramatically over the past few months, and so did the controversy.

Over the past few years, before we started mass-selling anything, quite a lot of magicians hooked up with me and I have spent a whole lot of time chatting with them, not to prove myself but more to share knowledge. That is, from my point of view because every single of those magicians had the intention for me to prove myself right. That not a single one of them remained doubting after these sessions tells me enough though. I still have such chats today but much less than before for the reason that there are way less doubters/non-believers left, and for the reason that these sessions often go on for more than an hour and that is a lot of time I will never get back, which is exactly why I hope to share some knowledge each time, but quite some of the times that didn't happen.

That said, I am absolutely not the only one who knows what I'm doing. There is my team, there are our customers, and there is a huge group of people I have had personal chats with who have been left with some of the bigger secrets, those to my most-doubted creations. The overall group of supporters gets bigger each day, and the overall group of doubters keeps shrinking, so be it. This is not a marketing tactic, this is just the way it apparently had to be (and it saves me time nowadays so I like it like that).

1) I only act like that when people have in fact shown to be ignorant. Those most often are the same people who felt the need to bash on me and my supporters and who have actually been guilty of libel (slander). It is one thing to doubt whatever I do, it's a whole other thing to spread false statements as if they are facts and to call names on me and/or my supporters.

2) Reason for this may be that magicians are not the ones I wish to entertain. You see reliable people as some of the current geniuses of magic, I see reliable people as laymen because only they can judge magic in the fairest way. Again, I am just another performer who happens to share some creations in online videos. If you find that irritating or frustrating, I would suggest you to move on in life. I don't think I am the one to blame for it by any means since I never told anyone to break their head over my videos.

We are as transparent as a magic company could be. Don't forget, it is the art of magic we are practicing here. We obviously won't be sharing all of our tricks and their secrets in here, even though that would definitely get rid of every doubter. That is not how the art works though, obviously.

But... we seem to share the opinion that this has reached a dead end. Honestly, I don't see any reason why this thread was even brought back up. That is the only reason why we are still talking. This kind of discussion already ended 4-5 months ago.

I'd be pleased to show you some magic live someday, but please keep in mind that I'd find it a waste of time if no knowledge would be shared, as described above. Thank you.

This whole response right there gives me no reason not to trust you. If every effect you showed on youtube is real and I hope it is, your work is crazy good... If not, well... all has been said already.
I am working a lot in associations dedicated to art these days (I have the past four years in fact) and I also organise sessions with magician friends from time to time. So do not get me started on knowledge sharing !

I do have something you would like a lot. That would be a nice thing to share if I was wrong all along. I hope I am but there is nothing to get me there right now.

I appreciated how you handled the conversation so thank you for that.

I don't understand though how starting selling products may make some just shut up. Anyway...