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funsway Inner circle old things in new ways - new things in old ways 9982 Posts |
Last weekend I was at a fundraiser up in the mountains (TN/NC border) for storm disaster victims. A lot of mountain folks don't have any insurance. There were about a 100 people gathered for food, music, storytelling, games, etc. -- and I was prepared to do strolling/parlor magic if the timing and setting allowed. Never did -- most folks were in small groups talking and stomping time with the music or fingers deep in Bar BQ. There was a lot of talk about magic, though.
I wandered around listening and taking notes of interesting phases and ideas. The word magic was used more than 30 times, but never in relationship to a trick seen or performed by anyone. There was no talk of ritual or archane magic either -- just a natural word to refer to things that happened without a clear explanation. I saw little reason to pretend at what folks feel is magic here everyday -- impossible things conquered, difficult things made easy, and awe about simple tricks that nature pulls. There as often a thread on the Café' where magicians try and define what magic is for magicians. I wonder why. Isn't it enough to know that every person has some sense of magic deep inside waiting to be awakened?
"the more one pretends at magic, the more awe and wonder will be found in real life." Arnold Furst
eBooks at https://www.lybrary.com/ken-muller-m-579928.html questions at ken@eversway.com |
Pakar Ilusi Inner circle 5777 Posts |
Quote:
On 2011-06-07 09:26, funsway wrote: No. There's also a need to discuss things. Just a normal human trait. Without it, I would say we would not have The Magic Café. But good topic funsway...
"Dreams aren't a matter of Chance but a matter of Choice." -DC-
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Whit Haydn V.I.P. 5449 Posts |
You conflate different uses of the word "magic," Ken.
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Michael Baker Eternal Order Near a river in the Midwest 11172 Posts |
The reference to magic in everyday life is larger than we may realize. In fact at one time, I put together a binder with commercial ads clipped from magazines, newspapers, etc. that referenced magic. I used it as part of a sales tool when doing a presentation to pitch having a magician in regard to some commercial tie-up, from restaurants to grand openings to trade shows. The point was to show the prospective client how recognizable the concept is, and that in fact "magic" was the number one word in advertising. That may still hold true today.
~michael baker
The Magic Company |
funsway Inner circle old things in new ways - new things in old ways 9982 Posts |
Quote:
On 2011-06-07 11:04, Whit Haydn wrote: nope -- the world defines what magic means for them. I just reported what I heard. For magicians to attempt to limit the meaning of "magic" to meet their particular needs only means they are not concerned about what spectator's think. Magic effects can be performed and appeciated without a precise definition -- only the confidence that the spectator's mind will supply the concept "magic" when confronted with a mystery, puzzle, dilemma or action with no apparent cause. The word may be trained, but the sense of awe and wonder is as natural as your lymbic neurons. Whit -- if there are "different uses" for the concept of magic, why do magicians want to "deflate" that? You have posted before that you do not believe in "authentic" magic. Fortunately -- your spectators do. There may be value for a limited definition of magic for internal communication amongst magicians that I don't grasp -- the folly is pretending that such a definition applies to spectator's or those who have no interest in performance magic. ............................. I have noticed that perhaps 1/5 or more of all TV ads refer to magic in some way; claiming it for a product, doing something typically performed by magicians like vansihing in puff of smoke, or actaully doing a magic trick. Champion Windows does a Cup & Ball effect.
"the more one pretends at magic, the more awe and wonder will be found in real life." Arnold Furst
eBooks at https://www.lybrary.com/ken-muller-m-579928.html questions at ken@eversway.com |
BarryFernelius Inner circle Still learning, even though I've made 2537 Posts |
mag•ic
(maj-ik) –noun 1. the art of producing illusions as entertainment by the use of sleight of hand, deceptive devices, etc.; legerdemain; conjuring: to pull a rabbit out of a hat by magic. 2. the art of producing a desired effect or result through the use of incantation or various other techniques that presumably assure human control of supernatural agencies or the forces of nature. Compare contagious magic, imitative magic, sympathetic magic. 3. the use of this art: Magic, it was believed, could drive illness from the body. 4. the effects produced: the magic of recovery. 5. power or influence exerted through this art: a wizard of great magic. 6. any extraordinary or mystical influence, charm, power, etc.: the magic in a great name; the magic of music; the magic of spring. If I were to use the word ‘ring’ to designate a circular band that encircles a finger, I’m not talking about the sound that a bell makes. The same word is used, but the meanings are quite different from each other. Similarly, if I were to describe evolution as a theory, a scientist would think that I’m talking about ideas that have been strongly established by evidence (2nd only to scientific law in importance) and a lay person might think that I’m talking about an explanation that is conjectural at best. As Jonathan is fond of pointing out, the context in which a word is used is vitally important. Magic is a word that can be used for a variety of different meanings in different contexts. When you run all of these meanings together, you end up with a confusing mess.
"To achieve great things, two things are needed: a plan and not quite enough time."
-Leonard Bernstein |
funsway Inner circle old things in new ways - new things in old ways 9982 Posts |
Well Barry -- it seems you may not have read my original post. Dozens of people spontaneously applied the word/concept of "magic" to what they saw and felt that day. It was the same "context," yet the action labeled as magic was different -- and none of them were about performance magic or any human "trick." Definition #6 seesm to be the most likely.
The point is that this is what your audience thinks of as magic. Why don't magicians relate to that? Your examples do not apply as they explain how a single person might use a word to mean different things -- or have his message confused by different denotations. Here I give examples of many people using the term in a general way and no one seemed confused at all. I guess only magicians are confused by magic ;-)
"the more one pretends at magic, the more awe and wonder will be found in real life." Arnold Furst
eBooks at https://www.lybrary.com/ken-muller-m-579928.html questions at ken@eversway.com |
The Burnaby Kid Inner circle St. John's, Canada 3158 Posts |
I was at a baseball game, and I decided to wander around and listen to what people were saying. I heard many, many mentions of hot dogs, and yet not a single one was actually referring to Canine Valley Fever. It would seem that nobody cares about this specific medical condition. Armed with this revelation, I went to a Veterinarian's convention and told them that they've been wasting their time caring about this medical condition. They were very appreciative. They even lifted up a single finger to tell me I was "number one".
JACK, the Jolly Almanac of Card Knavery, a free card magic resource for beginners.
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BarryFernelius Inner circle Still learning, even though I've made 2537 Posts |
Quote:
On 2011-06-07 18:23, funsway wrote: No, I read your original post. Quote:
Dozens of people spontaneously applied the word/concept of "magic" to what they saw and felt that day. It was the same "context," yet the action labeled as magic was different -- and none of them were about performance magic or any human "trick." Definition #6 seesm to be the most likely. That's one of the possible meanings of the word 'magic.' So what? Quote:
The point is that this is what your audience thinks of as magic. Why don't magicians relate to that? No, you're incorrect. This is what some of my audiences sometimes mean by the word 'magic'. I sometimes use the word that way myself. If you had been visiting with a bunch of anthropologists, they may very well have talked about magic in sense [2] above. Quote:
Your examples do not apply as they explain how a single person might use a word to mean different things -- or have his message confused by different denotations. Here I give examples of many people using the term in a general way and no one seemed confused at all. I guess only magicians are confused by magic ;-) My examples were relevant. Although people are unlikely to conflate the two senses of the word 'ring', I have witnessed two people attempt to have a discussion about the word 'theory' using the two senses that I described. Each person insisted on his own meaning of the word 'theory.' The result wasn't pretty. Heck, people sometimes use a word in more than one sense in the same sentence. On Sunday, some audiences members said that they really enjoyed my magic (sense [1]) because they found it to be, well, magical (sense [6]). The reason that people usually don't become confused is that they are aware of the context in which they are using the word 'magic.' I find that to be unremarkable.
"To achieve great things, two things are needed: a plan and not quite enough time."
-Leonard Bernstein |
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