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Wizard of Oz Inner circle Most people wish I didn't have 5150 Posts |
Mr. Rodrigues, I'm sorry I made you sad. This is a product review forum, and by definition, it is all about "value." I was simply stating my opinion.
I did misspeak about Vernet's product line. You're correct. They do, and have offered similar effects. I simply don't own them...so I was naive, but I'm sure they're good quality. I do however, own many of their other items, and am completely satisfied, which is why this item peaked my interest. Vernet is a solid company. My point was, and still is, that for this kind of money, go the extra step and make the wallet worthy of the effects. If someone will pay this much, they probably won't quibble about a few more dollars to make the item first-class. No one can convince me that vinyl feels, looks, lasts, and functions as well as leather does. Now, if the wallet is leather...shut me up. I'll be the first to admit when I say something stupid.
Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain.
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Failed Magician Inner circle Still working on the DL even after made 2100 Posts |
The effects sound great but I wish we could get a real close-up look at the wallet.
Magic comes through perception. -HS
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Martin.Lester Inner circle 1014 Posts |
The reason why a lot of item are priced so high in the UK is a lot of dealers buy from Murphy's and they set a minimum price that the item can be sold for (while price fixing in the UK is illegal this goes on all the time.)
A item that was sold recently by WMS when a friend of mine was going to purchase with rattled he asked why it was priced nine pounds more than other dealer's he was told that this price was set by Murphy's This is why its always best to shop around |
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michaelmystic2003 Inner circle 3062 Posts |
Brilliant episode as always!!! A question though... will iTunes EVER be updated?
Learn more about my upcoming book of close up magic and theory SYNTHESIS & SECRETS: A Magic Book in Four Acts: https://www.michaelkrasworks.com/synthesis-secrets
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EmersonRodriguez New user 30 Posts |
Wizard of Oz, I see that you understand my point,i totally agree with you on that!
I never said that you said something stupid we are here to talk and grow together! I just get sad because nowadays magic is constantly been devaluating by magicians but this is chat for another topic |
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Jaz2005 Veteran user I wish I had time to get more than 339 Posts |
Quote:
On 2011-07-17 12:03, Martin.Lester wrote: Hi Martin, There is no price fixing as that is, as you say, illegal both here in Europe and in the USA. However all manufacturers of products set out the retail price that they will sell the product at. There is then a wholesale discount percentage for dealers. If we buy product from MMS we first have to pay the wholesale price. Then we have to pay to ship it by UPS EXpress from the states. On top of this, when the shipment arrives in a UK port we then have to pay customs clearance fees, import duty and VAT.. We can claim the VAT back at some point but the other costs are added to the wholesale cost of the product. We also have the Foreign currency exchange rate to take into account. As thus fluctuates on an hourly basis it would be impractical to constantly change our prices. Therefore, we along with most VAT businesses run a simple calculation to arrive at the retail price net of VAT. This takes into account all of our costs in buying, importing and stocking the product. Then, we add 20% to the price for the cut required by HM Revenue and Customs and this gives us our end user price. Obviously a small bedroom dealer who is not VAT registered will be cheaper than us for our European customers and if they are not, then they are overcharging. Remember, we have to send 16.67% of the final sales price to the tax man. A non registered dealer does not so they should be at least that much cheaper than us. We run a bricks and mortar premises and provide an excellent service to our customers and for that, we need to make a fair profit. That is what we do. We do not price fix nor do we over charge. However, we may be dearer on some items than other dealers because we have imported them from the USA Hope this helps Jim WMS |
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Wizard of Oz Inner circle Most people wish I didn't have 5150 Posts |
For me, that's about as clear of a description as one can hope for. Nicely done Jim. I give it, "Worker of the Week."
Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain.
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Martin.Lester Inner circle 1014 Posts |
Quote:
On 2011-07-19 16:17, Jaz2005 wrote: Hi Jim , Thanks for your Post , while I do expect a dealer to make a profit and while I can see your Point about imported from the USA let me give you an example of one of your Own Products Love Cards by Craig Petty and Russell (As Reviewed in Magic Magazine) To Buy Direct from WMS including Postage in the UK = £33.50 I purchased from a USA Dealer inc Shipping to the UK = £23.00 This is your own Product , and while I like to support the UK Dealers I was not going to pay £10 over the odds for a packet type effect |
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Jaz2005 Veteran user I wish I had time to get more than 339 Posts |
Quote:
On 2011-07-20 08:01, Martin.Lester wrote: Ok Martin well done for finding a bargain. Love Cards retail in the USA for $40 no VAT as the USA is outside of Europe. This means the dealer buys it wholesale for $24 or a Sterling equivalent of £15. he then sold it to you for £23 including postage thereby making a profit. Your post just goes to prove that he was free to sell the product at a lower than recommended retail price and therefore kicks your price fixing argument into touch. We sell the product for £30. This includes £5 sales tax commonly known as VAT therefore our actual sales price is £25 our postage rates are fixed at a flat rate on which I assure you that we do not profit. Therefore our profit comes from the £25 sales price. Not from the postage or VAT. If you choose to purchase from overseas where you are not charged VAT then good for you. However do not lambast us or other magic dealers for carrying on ethical business where we make only a fair profit. This started as a fair and comprehensive answer to your false price fixing allegation which you, by your own post above have dispelled. There is really no more to be said on this matter. Regards Jim |
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Martin.Lester Inner circle 1014 Posts |
1st off all I did not say all Dealers I said a "lot"
If you look on Murphy's site several items are shown with the warning The producer requests all dealers who resell this item to ADVERTISE it only at the full Manufacturer's Suggested Retail Price (MSRP). and clearly goes on that any dealer that sells for less could lose there account with murphy (Is this Not the same as Price Fixing ?) You have already stated you get the VAT Back so I can't see how you can say this is not part of your profit as you charge me £5.00 which I pay you , but you then claim this amount back or have I missed something Anyway I think we will have to agree to differ ! Thanks for taking the time to Reply Regards Martin |
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Ray Tupper. Special user NG16. 749 Posts |
Quote:
On 2011-07-22 08:29, Martin.Lester wrote: When you are VAT registered,you're allowed to claim Vat back from purchases. The Vat that you have to charge when making a sale is paid to the inland revenue and is non refundable. It's the purchaser of a product or service that can apply for a refund.You can only apply for refunds of VAT if you're registered to charge VAT. Ray.
What do we want?
A cure for tourettes! When do we want it? C*nt! |
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Jaz2005 Veteran user I wish I had time to get more than 339 Posts |
Hi Martin,
To copy you, first of all I did not say all dealers, I said "or other dealers" Perhaps an eye test is in order. As stated by Ray, if you had read my post correctly you will have seen that we claim back the import VAT. That is the tax we pay to customs on the value of the import. It has no effect on the cost of goods or our cost calculations. The VAT that we charge you 20% of the net sales price i.e that £5 on the net sales price of £25 for Love Cards is paid directly to HM Customs an Revenue. We merely act as their unpaid agent to account for your taxes on your spending. This is law set in statute by the government and cannot be varied by us. With regard to Murphys web site statement, it is a request to advertise the product at the MSRP this is somewhat different from price fixing. If the price was fixed you would not have purchased your bargain including shipping for £23 which is under the MSRP. I really suggest that you educate yourself fully on matters before coming onto a public forum and making spurious statements which could very easily constitute libel. The fact that Mr Peters already thinks SWIZZ is proof enough in both English and US law that libel has taken place. I therefore suggest that you refrain from digging youself deeper into this mire and be happy that you were smart enough to get a bargain undetected through customs. It is a criminal offence to import commercial goods over £18 in value into the UK without declaring it to HM Customs. This applies to postal packets. If your item had been properly identified as a commercial product. You would have had to pay import handling charges to Royal Mail before receiving your product and that would have had a significant impact on your bargain. e.g. Price paid £23. VAT £4.60 Royal Mail Customs clearance fee £8 = Total £35.60. This is actualy more than it would have cost you had you purchased it from us on any other UK dealer. So therefore my libelous corespondent not only are you guilty of a civil Tort against us and MMS by claiming that we price fix and overcharge, but you are also guilty of criminal VAT evasion. I urged you to take my friendly advice and quit your pointless argument. I forgive you for your Libelous comments up to this point but be assured that any further libel will nor be tolerated. You are one of our customers and I have no wish to fall out with you but we as a business have to respond to inaccurate information that is propagated concerning our business. Regards Jim |
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Jamie Ferguson Inner circle Alba Gu Brà th 3640 Posts |
I get stuff cheaper from the States all the time. Import costs are a bit hit and miss, sometimes you win sometimes you lose. Depends what the sender writes on the envelope.
When the chips are down, the duvet is uncomfortable.
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Mark Strivings V.I.P. 290 Posts |
Gents,
Be aware, the Aleph is a rip off. See my postings in 'Latest and Greatest' for all the info. Thanks. Mark Strivings
Mark Strivings is the owner of the largest all-mentalism mail order supply business in the world, "Mental Connections", carrying materials not available anywhere else. For complete info, drop Mark a line at MarkyApril@aol.com
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Wizard of Oz Inner circle Most people wish I didn't have 5150 Posts |
Thanks Mark. I just read the posts...very enlightening.
As so many threads on the Café have shown, it would seem that producing new magic is extremely difficult to do without conflict. I can't speak from experience, but it an art form with so many personalized, nuanced moves, subtleties, and improvements, it seems practically impossible to ethically market an effect. I guess it all comes down to defining and identifying the difference between what is "new," and what is "original," and then properly crediting those who have come before. I'm so confused...
Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain.
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