I hardly ever get on the Café.
Everything I know is either from DVD's or Created.

Thanks for all the info

Thanks a lot Which moves did you like?
All the flourishes to my knowledge are mine.
But you would probably know a little bit more about that...

Well that's hard to say
Since I have never seen his work till recently.
It does not look like he use his thumb to do the retention.

-Leon Deo Scott

That's why I said "Welcome."

It's great to learn about things and the Café is a great place to visit to see what's going on out there, past and present with access to nearly all the guys that actually create all those DVDs out there you have, most are right up here. You got real experts up here, historians, magic writers and publishers and a whole slew of varying levels of workers and performers and hobbyists. There's no magic place like this anywhere to be honest. The best of magic, pound for pound, is right up here, believe that! And with all that, there's still unique things people come up with. There is plenty of room for a talented guy like yourself. I hope you take the lesson and build upon it as it is not meant to break you down but really to build you up. Keep growing my friend becuase you got what it takes IMHO.

The thing is, Silver hasn't published the real work behind his ideas and techniques. Until he does, anyone who independently stumbles upon the same methods (not saying that's what happened here) has the right to publish them and claim them as their own. That's the downside to not publishing. So why are we even bringing Silver into the conversation concerning the originality of this retention pass?

Not seeing too many comments about the neat looking coin appearance on the other video offering from his site.

You can see some comments here:

http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewt......&start=0

http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewt......um=109&7

You need to incorporate this footage into the demo. It was this video that sold me, not the official demo video!

Leon, you may not have heard of Mickey Silver, but you MUST know who Ponta the Smith is !!
The fact is the retention you show works with the very same mechanism than his...

I think that you've a good flow, but I find your vid a little repetitive...4 mn+ to show the same few effects...

Keep up the good work !

Again I agree with lawrens and Garrett here as to this.

And JT, love his Transendence effect, just wonderful but not sure it has much to do with this discussion. Clearly as I said his magical wheels are turning pretty good and I certainly encourage that.

Max my friend you seem to miss why Mickey Silver was brought up in the discussion (how could you not bring up Mickey Silver here???). Why? Because BD was showing something that people have seen before and in much greater and developed presentation from Mickey Silver to be exact, whether he got it from there or not. I did mention that Mickey has not published his work but that don't mean it's not out there, heck I just showed it to you. Does it not exist because it's not written down or on a DVD for sale? I'm not saying Mickey owns this stuff, just that he has done extensive work in the genre, real stuff that you can see and feel. BD needs to know that and it's something he said he didn't know. It doesn't mean he can't continue to create using an ROV, he most certainly can but perhaps his work could be even more if he at least knew of such a man's contributions to this exact move. Now he knows better than he did and can adjust himself accordingly with even more knowledge of what he has a good handle on already. Mickey never has to publish anything he does, though most people wish he would including me, but that does not negate the reality of what he has done with all this for years and years. So BD can certainly publish whatever he wants but if others notice that they have seen such before and mention it, show it, etc., what's wrong with that? It's better to know than not to know, is it not? So you can still learn this from BD but perhaps he might want to learn it better from Mickey Silver, we would all like to I would think. Not mentioning Mickey Silver in such a discussion to me is a little like seeing Michael Jackson and not ever mentioning the Jackson 5, or something like that.

Magic is art, to be shared.
I am simply sharing the tools that I use to create that art...
Whether you think they are perfect or not, in my mind to me they are.
That is why I named it the perfect retention, much like an artist would name his painting the "perfect sunrise"
reality is subjective, my reality is that I have confidence in my move therefore to me it is perfect..

It is just a name and a reflection of the confidence I have in my creations...
Everything I create is perfect in my mind...

I never once said it was better than anyone else's.

It is simply my rendition of a classic move and I named it perfect because to me it is.

I never once put it against another magicians move...

You did...

So I leave you with this.

Best regards to all.
-Leon Deo Scott

Looks great! Remind me of a reverse French Drop. Sweet!

AAHHH....yes.....more coin manipulation debates and learning for me!!!.....YAY.....Thanks to all here...for your artistry, knowledge, acumen, skill, etc.....which in my mind....equals pure love for this art. Not money, fame, documentation....to me....pure love! Pls feel free to PM me to beta test, demo, or otherwise learn from you:-)

A review, for what it's worth:

http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewt......um=159&0

Great review Garrett. And there is a lot of worthy stuff to look at in BD's package.

And for the record here...I believe a lot of what I posted might've been better said via PM to BD. I hope I didn't jade him too badly as to it. I really didn't mean to, just tried to make him better aware of things he seemed not to be very aware of. Be that as it may, I still think it would've been better handled here privately. So I have also learned a good lesson here, that honestly I was also taught long time back here as to such things and forgot how all that felt out in the open. :/ I shouldn't have forgotten that here but perhaps I did and I am sorry and will do better going forward as to my opinions. Most importantly, I want to encourage BD here to keep moving forward because his work is worth his solid efforts so far shown. I look forward to a lot of good stuff from this young man going forward. His "Transendence" effect is just beautiful and his new package here is certainly worth the price of admission as you will learn some good stuff in it as my friend Garrett reviews. Again my apologies here to BD and the forum, and my every hope is to continue seeing his good mind for coin magic continue. With that BD I extend my hand in friendship and if I can be of any help just reach out here on the forum.

-Mb

"To be honest retention vanishes are one of the more tricky moves to learn because no one really goes that deep into them"

That's not true. You need to read more...

This is a fascinating thread in that it touches on issues that magicians face in creating magic. I believe "great minds think alike" in this case. If Leon had only copied others, then he would have included subtleties that I feel are missing. I think if you are going to just be a "worker" and do not want to publish or go public (web) with your craft, then it's fine to mix and match moves without a lot of research on what has been done. Your audience is your main focus. However, if you are going to sell or even demonstrate to the magic community, then you need to research more (the Café is a great place to start). Don't take the jabs to personally and get the most out of the excellent magicians and advice here. I'm a worker. I really don't have the necessary time to research as much as I would like. This is why I haven't shared any videos or marketed anything. (at least not yet...) For instance, I have a "great" Card On Forehead that I think is original and it kills - but I don't dare yet make a video until I research others. (PM me if you want the method)

A updated version of this move is now published in my new video lecture notes for those interested.

Titled "Paradigm Shift" 

Paradigm Shift is an extension to my previous work with the retention vanish and other slights and flourishes. 
It is for coin workers with a fundamental knowledge of coin slights. 

It was shot on my webcam and has noise coming from my hard drive. 
I packed the download full of useful content to make up for it. 

You can pick up my lecture notes on: bleedingdove.com 

Here is a link to the video on youtube: http://youtu.be/0Ye5CmNYljg 

I also made this video just for fun: http://youtu.be/LklrBeB-10w 

I will not be posting on here till I have another download to share. 

If you have any questions contact me on my youtube channel: http://www.youtube.com/user/thebleedingdove 

Thank you for your interest. 
-Leon Deo Scott

I know Mickey Silver, and there is nothing out there that I have ever seen that comes close.

I'm basically a hobbiest. I have been doing a retention vanish for 30 years. Though OK, I never thought it was great.


I bought Leon's video, and picked up on two suggestions that have changed the way I do the RV. I think I now perform it better than I ever have.

My $10.00 was well spent!

Thanks Leon,

Sammy