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carla New user 33 Posts |
watching Greg's (grostami) terrific clip of his "Houdini" scotch & soda routine, I began to think about the way he keeps his pinky curled upward while classic palming a coin. I have read various sources that recommend doing this, presumably to hide the "dimple" byproduct of the classic palm.
I find when I try to curl my pinky this way, My whole hand cramps up and I lose the free movement of my other fingers that makes my classic palm passably natural. I also find that it makes me more likely to flash the palmed coin. What's the collective wisdom on this version of the palm? Is it simply a matter of more practice needed, or have others found that the pinky curl doesn't work for them? |
Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27297 Posts |
Acutually it's all about how dainty you want to be.
Some of my friends used to comment about the 'pinkie out' thing. I went for a more minimalist look. It helps to watch your hands and see what works for you.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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Paul Chosse V.I.P. 1955 - 2010 2389 Posts |
One of the worst tells that coin magicians have, when classic palming, is the tension that shows in the back of the hand. In my case, curling the little finger tends to relax the stress on the tendons and relieve the tension that shows on the back of the hand. I guess it's different for everyone, but if I were trying to decide what to do I would look at the hand in both positions and determine what gives me the most flexability and at the same time looks most natural.
If you are losing control of the coin when you curl your fingers into your palm in a semi-relaxed state, you may want to adjust the location of the coin in the palm. Moving it higher or lower in the palm will give you more or less control, and the position needed will vary based on what you are doing with the rest of your hand. The cramping is probably due to the muscles stretching to control the coin in a position that you originally developed for a flat palm. I classic palm in different locations (the difference is fractional) based on the look I'm going for and the freedom I need in the routine. I can eliminate the curl if I have something else to do with the palming hand that explains/justifies the tension, so there are times to curl and times when it isn't necessary. I remember discussing this with Mike Skinner as part of a discussion on a trick he was noted for, and that I have done all my life too. Presto Chango, in Bobo, requires some classic palming. How you get into and out of the palm as part of the effect and as a switch, was what we talked about. To illustrate what I mean about justifying the tension in your hand here is what I do: after I toss the coins into my left hand, executing the switch, I have a third coin in the right hand in Fingertip Rest. Rather than put it into classic palm inmmediately, I look to the left hand and close the right hand except for the index finger. The index finger is extended and used as a pointer. I poin to the left hand and, as I am pointing to the left hand and the coins supposedly contained therein, I put the coin into Classic Palm. The movement required to put the coin up is covered by the pointing. The tension that the spectator notes is attributed to the closing of the right hand into a fist and the extension of the forefinger to point. After the coin is in classic palm I can relax the hand, and I usually do that by resting it on the table in a semi-curled position. If I am doing the trick standup, with no table, then the hand just hangs loosely at the side, again with the fingers slightly curled. I hope that some of this made sense, and that it is helpful in analyzing your problem. Best, PSC
"You can't steal a gift..." Dizzy Gillespie
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Curtis Kam V.I.P. same as you, plus 3 and enough to make 3498 Posts |
Here's a quick and easy check to see if your classic palming hand is looking relaxed and natural:
Start with two empy hands and a coin on the table. Pick up the coin in one hand,getting it into position to classic palm. Display the coin to your imaginary audience. Stop. Look down at the OTHER hand. The one that's not doing anything. That's how your hand looks when it's relaxed. Get your palming hand to do likewise.
Is THAT a PALMS OF STEEL 5 Banner I see? YARRRRGH! Please visit The Magic Bakery
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harris Inner circle Harris Deutsch 8812 Posts |
Keep em laughing and using the sleights as a means not an end is where I am at.
I got reminded of that at a club meeting where my loosely held palmed coins dropped while doing a HPC. They were covered by my right hand and the ones from the left hand blended in. Someone new to me came up after the meeting and said he liked my routine. He stated he liked my routine. Sometimes I forget that laypeople don't know that the display was supposed to show only three coins. I tend to watch what my thumb does or doesn't do rather than my "pinkie". Try doing a coin roll while palming 1,2,3 or... coins. Also I was taught that a sleight tap on the hand should dislodge a single palmed classic coin. (Is that still correct today) Having fun even with mistakes.(after all these years) Harris "Palms of Aluminum Foil" Deutsch For the lighter touch in coin magic Laughologist and Nearly Normal Magician http://www.nearlynormalmagic.com
Harris Deutsch aka dr laugh
drlaugh4u@gmail.com music, magic and marvelous toys http://magician.org/member/drlaugh4u |
Chris S Veteran user 393 Posts |
Think you will find that if you want to coin roll with the coins in palm, then the slight tap rule will probably result in the loss of grip. I tend to think that the pinky curl looks far more unnatural than the dimple that is produced (know any laypeople who would spot a dimple?). How many people do you see curl their pinky in such a manner? Not many (I hope)
May your moral compass guide you true - South West is where the honourable man fare. Pity those who lose their way...
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carla New user 33 Posts |
Thanks for the replies, everyone.
I was wondering about this pinky curl business because I have seen some sources recommend it, but I don't think it looks terribly natural, and as I mentioned above, when I try it, it feels awful. So I thought I'd ask - an informal poll, if you will - whether the collective wisdom here is that it's a good subtlety that I should just practice more (so it doesn't feel awful). |
Allan Elite user 405 Posts |
If you want to classic palm & have it seem natural, the only way to be totally comfortable, is to get used to palming all the time. Have a coin palmed while you eat, drive, walk etc. In time, you will not know it's there & neither will the audience.
Did anyone know that in every picture taken of Michael Aamar, he has a coin palmed. Since he is the one that told me of this practice, I know it to be true. |
Greg Rostami V.I.P. Skynet will become self-aware in 2871 Posts |
Hi Carla,
After reading your post, I went back and looked at my Houdini clip looking at my hand gestures. MAN, I NEVER noticed this before!! My Pinky is always UP !! I had never given this that much thought, but I guess here is my reasoning for the pinky. If you look at a hand with the pinky curled IN it would seem like someone COULD be holding something with the pinky. This would make the hand seem more dirty then not. As I've discussed in a previous thread; I always do my magic without the sleights and notice my hand gestures, and then go back and do the routine WITH the sleights. I have the kind of personality that CONSTANTLY wants to show my hands clean as often as possible . . . hence the curled pinky. Now, with all that said, I'm always fooled by magicians who NEVER curl their pinky . . . so I guess it's just depends on your style. My style is an unnatural gesture to SHOW that the hands are empty. I think that this constant PROVING is one of the things that's inherent in performing magic. Imagine if the average person suddenly had a coin disappear in their left hand . . . do you think they would try to PROVE to themselves that their RIGHT hand was empty too? I believe that magicians CONSTANTLY have this burden of PROOF . . . hence the PINKY CURL !! take care, Greg Rostami |
Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27297 Posts |
Greg, (et al) That burden of proof is precisly what motivated me NOT to do Doug Henning impressions. While his attitutude was admirable, the display of empty hands is FATAL to us folks who do routined coin magic with more than one coin. The expectation of such a display gets in the way of the magic.
There have to be ways to get the audience to FEEL the emptiness of your hands without needing to touch or see both sides with fingers splayed open.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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Chad Sanborn Inner circle my fingers hurt from typing, 2205 Posts |
I think that the biggest 'tell' most magicians have is when putting the coin into classic palm. The thumb shoots out then back in. The also tend to move the entire hand at the wrist either up or down. Same when letting the coin fall out of classic palm. The wrist breaks and the hand falls down.
I was guilty of these things for along time. Until it was pointed out to me. Now I try to be more aware of it while performing these actions. Chad |
carla New user 33 Posts |
Hm. It seems there are competing theories - (1) if your hands look relaxed and natural, you don't have to explicitly show them empty because the audience won't suspect relaxed and natural hands of concealment; and (2) if you are showing your hands fairly empty at every stage of the routine, it doesn't matter if they are in a tensed or showy position because you have showed them empty.
I suppose the "right answer" is to play and practice and decide what's most comfortable for the individual. Probably the most important thing is to be consistent - in Greg's video, for example, the pinky is up whether there is a coin palmed or not. This is crucial to prevent the curl of the pinky becoming a tell. |
Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27297 Posts |
I'll go with the 'play and practice' approach. When you are practicing routines that involve extensive 'hold and hide' at the start, and others that involve vanishing several coins... you may want to consider your options. I agree that for 'basic' routines where a utility switch can help show empty hands... you can easily have a display type style.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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magicpro New user montreal 51 Posts |
CURL!!! it's my favourite
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Bong780 Regular user Toronto, Canada 172 Posts |
I usually have my pinky naturally curl as the other fingers (pinky don't stick out). That's natural for me. Sometimes I still keep my classic palm when I drive, using computer, and even now I type with a coin in my palm.
But I still have trouble palming 3+ coins in my small hands. |
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