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helder Inner circle Portugal 1064 Posts |
I love sanduich effects and this routine, Caught 3 Times by James Brown it's one of my favorites. But I'm thinking in change a little the way the selections are made, instead of give them the deck for take a card, I'm thinking in spread them , touch a card, show it, turn to another spectator, touch a card, show it and so on.Do you think it will weaken the routine?
My version of Eddie fetcher "Be Honest What's it?" it's available at Penguin Magic
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Chris Piercy Special user Dorset, England 932 Posts |
Don't see why it'd weaken it really, providing that you're just as comfortable with the moves.
I'm working on a evolution of this effect with a massive kicker ending, completely different handling but this was the inspiration behind it. Chris |
helder Inner circle Portugal 1064 Posts |
Just to be sure. In this way the selection of cards it's also more faster.
My version of Eddie fetcher "Be Honest What's it?" it's available at Penguin Magic
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Steven Keyl Inner circle Washington, D.C. 2630 Posts |
For all multiple selection routines, including this one, having spectators call stop and showing them the card is how I have all the cards selected. As you say, it saves time, so is ultimately less tedious than a traditional select-and-return procedure. This is a trick I haven't done in a while. Time to dust off this chestnut and start working it again. It really is a nice trick.
Steven Keyl - The Human Whisperer!
B2B Magazine Test! Best impromptu progressive Ace Assembly ever! "If you ever find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause, and reflect." --Mark Twain |
helder Inner circle Portugal 1064 Posts |
Quote:
On 2012-02-03 08:28, Steven Keyl wrote: I haven't done it yet, but it's something very strong. Also it can be done surronded, on table, stand up. Great routine.
My version of Eddie fetcher "Be Honest What's it?" it's available at Penguin Magic
Check my Facebook group: Mentalism Secrets Email: heldermagico@gmail.com www.facebook.com/heldermagico |
Chris Piercy Special user Dorset, England 932 Posts |
Having had a little time to think about it Helder, I actually think your idea is a good one. I stopped performing this trick as it was a little slow but your idea will speed it up quite considerably, might give your idea a go soon.
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helder Inner circle Portugal 1064 Posts |
Quote:
On 2012-02-03 09:02, Chris Piercy wrote: :)
My version of Eddie fetcher "Be Honest What's it?" it's available at Penguin Magic
Check my Facebook group: Mentalism Secrets Email: heldermagico@gmail.com www.facebook.com/heldermagico |
Sealegs Inner circle The UK, Portsmouth 2596 Posts |
Steven Keyl wrote:
Quote:
[it] is ultimately less tedious than a traditional select-and-return procedure. I think this points to the wider general issue of removing the boringness that many unfortunately end up endowing upon their performances of magic with cards. I appreciate that Steven's suggestion is to help speed up the selection process. On face value this is welcome and helpful so I hope he won't mind if I take what he has said and run with it into a slightly bigger space. Speeding up the selection process so that it is 'ultimately less tedious" doesn't really sound that brilliant... surely going for a lesser degree of tediousness shouldn't be what those handling the pasteboards are aiming for? ... How would it not be better to go for something that isn't tedious at all? Why should the process of having cards selected be boring? It's only boring if you make it boring and don't apply yourself to this aspect of the effect in the same way one might apply themselves to learning some sleight of hand. If you're flashing a move you hopefully do something about it... if getting a card or cards selected is a bit slow and/or boring it makes sense surely to apply yourself to inject something into the proceedings or handling that makes it an interesting and entertaining moment instead. Lets look at what one is dealing with at these pick a card moments... If you, say, offer a spread to cards to someone and merely gesture a card inevitably gets chosen. Only if a card doesn't get taken do you need to prompt the participating spectator to do so. This leaves the performer free to engage with the audience in more or less anyway they like while the cards are being selected. So rather than thinking along the lines of, "take a card... and look at it... and memorise it.... and you do the same thing.... and you too... ok... great... and now if you'll put yours back... and you do the same as well... and you too" (riveting isn't it?).... think of saying or doing something else. Something entertaining that moves the plot or the effect along perhaps... or maybe something entertaining that has nothing to do with the trick whatsoever. My point is that at this point in the effect your canvass is practically blank and you can fill it with more or less whatever you chose... why fill it with something uninteresting and mundane when you have the opportunity to fill it with virtually anything? I'm pretty sure that more time spent on this one simple thing would be hugely beneficial for both those who get shown these card effects and those who perform them.
Neal Austin
"The golden rule is that there are no golden rules." G.B. Shaw |
Steven Keyl Inner circle Washington, D.C. 2630 Posts |
Neal's point is a good one. In theory I agree wholeheartedly--in practice, this doesn't work well for me.
To paraphrase, Neal is suggesting that if we replace the "standard instructions" in the selection procedure with something more engaging and engrossing then the question of which method is less tedious is a non-starter. In theory, this is excellent advice. This is something I tried to do for quite some time. In practice, however, what I found was that if I was funny and entertaining through the selection procedure and didn't reinforce the instructions then a large percentage of the spectators would not remember their card. Why? Because they're too busy focusing on what I'm saying and not focusing on the value of their card. If I was doing a multiple selection routine with about 10 selections, at least 3 or 4 wouldn't remember their card. I tried balancing the witty reparté with reminders for people to remember their card but it never seemed to help. In the end, I went back to this selection procedure for a couple of reasons:
Of course, as performing styles, timbres and cadences differ, not everyone will necessarily run into this issue. It certainly was an issue for me though. Reminds me of an old Albert Einstein quote: In theory, there's no difference between theory and practice; in practice, there is.
Steven Keyl - The Human Whisperer!
B2B Magazine Test! Best impromptu progressive Ace Assembly ever! "If you ever find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause, and reflect." --Mark Twain |
Sealegs Inner circle The UK, Portsmouth 2596 Posts |
Steven:
I appreciate and understand the problems that can arise from making the selection process part of the entertainment in the way I suggest. You could undoubtedly come a cropper if you didn't ensure that the participating spectators are doing what you need them to. This is true for any approach. And I'm not suggesting it is always going to be easy to piece together and script something that works but then learning the pass or a side steal or any of the other elements that go to making our card magic work require application and effort. Also I'm not advocating not giving any instructions at all... I'm just that saying that sometimes (often I would suggest) a gesture, or a nod, or a look is all that is needed; and when it is this allows you to use this moment for something other than the mundane. An effect with just one card selected, where you can see that many seated in the audience are going to also get to see the card, probably requires no 'standard instructions'. A 10 card selection might well need some direction to be given. But as the cards are taken, all 10 of them one by one, no more direction needs to be given than if one card is being taken. You can wait until all ten have their cards, then give them the necessary prompt to ensure they all remember their cards (hopefully done in a way that makes it seem like more than just a procedural instruction) and then get back to something more engrossing as you collect up all 10 cards. I'm not denying that Steven is correct in saying that there will be effects where explicit instruction need to be given in a way that both the performer and the spectator are both sure beyond doubt that the spectator has understood and followed what is required of them. I just think that these occasions are fewer than the 'tedious' nature of many performers handling of these moments actually indicate and I think that these moments are better addressed by accommodating them within an entertaining presentation (that still gets the basics done) than letting it hold that part of the presentation to ransom.
Neal Austin
"The golden rule is that there are no golden rules." G.B. Shaw |
Adam1975 Special user UK 900 Posts |
Quote:
On 2012-02-03 08:28, Steven Keyl wrote: Yes good call.I used to do a collectors routine where all 3 selections were individually removed from the deck,then returned,false shuffle etc,but now I do 3 in the hands controls instead,so the cards never leave the deck.I usually do 3 different ones also,coz that's how I roll.But I digress. It definatly cuts down on procedure and dead time,which,try as you might,is hard to make interesting,I think. I also think,that in the hands controls,if using good ones and done well,are actually fairer than having them removed...iv done both,and reached this conclusion.Thats my mileage anyway.
Ive upped my standards.Now,up yours!
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Adam1975 Special user UK 900 Posts |
Also............as a bonus addition,using good,in the hand controls,also,I have found,cuts down drastically on the "no,I don't want to replace my card there" type responses we`ve all had....
And before anyone chimes in,im well aware that control of the audience etc,and there are ways to "get out" of this scenario with your dignity and underpants intact,but yer know.....sometimes,well most of the time for me,I just wanna crack on with the trick,not go down lengthy diversional avenues to appease the more awkward types...know wad I mean chaps.....
Ive upped my standards.Now,up yours!
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Steven Keyl Inner circle Washington, D.C. 2630 Posts |
Neal, sounds like we're basically on the same page here. We agree that shortening the selection process is not a replacement for entertaining byplay. As long as the new process doesn't detract from the overall effect, then both of those elements can certainly reinforce one another.
And Adam, I know exactly what you mean. Most spectators want to relax and enjoy what you're doing, even if it is just to "figure it out." But often there's one in the crowd that wants to turn every effect into a test conditions scenario. Those types of effects can be fun to perform but they tend to get bogged down in procedure which ends up boring the rest of the group. I usually plow on through then do something later for the stickler.
Steven Keyl - The Human Whisperer!
B2B Magazine Test! Best impromptu progressive Ace Assembly ever! "If you ever find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause, and reflect." --Mark Twain |
helder Inner circle Portugal 1064 Posts |
I found a good alternative to control the selections without the thumb c....t.
:)
My version of Eddie fetcher "Be Honest What's it?" it's available at Penguin Magic
Check my Facebook group: Mentalism Secrets Email: heldermagico@gmail.com www.facebook.com/heldermagico |
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