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leomagnus Veteran user 303 Posts |
Greetings fellow Magi/manipulators,
I've been working on a manipulation act for six months now, and I'm very proud(probably irrationally) of it. I plan to compete this summer at the IBM with it, and am getting a bit frustrated. This may sound silly to some, but perhaps some of you will know where I'm coming from. The main source of pride from this act, is that its a manipulation act that at best makes sense, and at worst is logical. The act tells the story of a 16 year old kid(me) who finds a deck of cards and a magic book in a moving box while cleaning up an attic/moving. The kid tries to do what it says in the book immediately after the briefest of glances into the book, but the magic that he starts, escapes from his control and proceeds to harass him for the next few minutes.(a Sorcerer's Apprentice feel)I won't spoil how it ends, but you get the idea. This act was built off of the Cardini-esque view expressed by Tommy Wonder that the very best manipulation acts are the ones which ARE NOT "look what I can do". Now for the problem. I'm going to start by admitting that I'm a move monkey. I love practicing extremely hard and flashy moves, and as I master them, I naturally want to perform them. However, my character does not, and should not ever appear to be the master. I'm a cocky, over-confident adolescent who's being beaten up, humiliated, annoyed, and confused by magic that's out of my control. If I start doing extreme, Asian-grade card manipulations, the entire idea of the act would crash around my ears. Consequently, I haven't been able to perform any of the moves that I practice so much. What do I do? Do I make a completely new act, do I destroy this one(hell no), do I never perform any of these manipulations ever? A deeper question would be, are these crazy moves really magic, or are they flourishes. Do they really belong in a magic act? I'm not really asking questions, just letting out some pent-up frustration. I'd love it if you all could share any similar experiences, and how you coped with it. Do you think that many Asian moves are more flourish than magic?(wait, that WAS a question) Have you ever tried to put moves into your act simply because you can? Do you still? How has it effected you? Think on it. I look forward to hearing your responses. Cheers! -Leo |
Bill Hegbli Eternal Order Fort Wayne, Indiana 22797 Posts |
Judges for magic competitions will not consider your mini-playlet as anything that is a winning act. How are you going to set the stage? For this to work at all, I believe you would need a complete stage setting of an attic. I don't believe you can say, imagine this to be in a attic.
Judges look mostly for original magic tricks, pleasing personality, and good stage presence. They are not acting critics, thus the playlet thing I don't know would work in 8 minutes. Flourishes should only be done to enhance the magic. I believe you have to decide if your act will be more of a manipulator performing magic or a magician performing manipulations. |
Anatole Inner circle 1912 Posts |
Leo, I think the question comes down to (as it often does in a manipulation act) the percentage of magic vs flourishes. That was true of Cardini's act as well. The interlude that Cardini did with the one billiard ball in "Festival of Magic" included an obvious display of skill what with the rapid rolling of the ball between the fingers. If you look at the photos of Cardini's act in the John Fisher biography, it is clear that he occasionally included a double fan in the act, and it's hard for me to imagine that an inebriated gentleman could "accidentally" weave the halves of a deck together and "accidentally" form a double fan, which he is clearly shown performing on the cover of the biography mentioned. Granted that is a posed picture, but if you also check this Café post:
http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewt......forum=10 which is a first hand description of the act from 1931, you will note that there are some obvious displays of skill such as: 1) Riffles one-half of deck into the other and forms a double fan 2) Does waterfall shuffle (and repeats it) 3) Makes Charlier pass with left. Then a triple-cut and a one handed shuffle. 4) Spreads cards sideways along left arm and does turnover, dropping one or two on floor. Those are obvious displays of skill in what is almost universally regarded as the greatest magic act of all time. I doubt that you would need "a complete stage setting of an attic." When Tina Lenert does her cleaning lady act as shown here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bokFurvLNwU she does not need "a complete stage setting of an office." She creates the impression of that environment with a single cleaning cart and her costuming. That's not a real mirror she holds in her hand to look at her face, but her miming skills convey to the audience that she is considering her appearance and wishing that it weren't as plain as what she "sees" in the mirror. Lance Burton does not need a sidewalk and buildings in the background to create the impression of standing on a streetcorner. He does that with a single prop--a street lamp. My computer is rather sluggish when I try to send PMs via The Magic Café. If you would like other comments or suggestions, you can send me an email at: sonny.parmenides@yahoo.com As for judges looking "mostly for original magic tricks, pleasing personality, and good stage presence," I think the pleasing personality and good stage presence are the key. Lance Burton won the first IBM Gold Medal with Fantasio candles, Lloyd-style multiplying candles, a Zombie... tricks that can be purchased at any magic shop. What set him apart from other acts was likely the pleasing personality and good stage presence. It was people like (I think) Pete Biro who told him that what worked for the IBM Gold Medal might not do the job at FISM, so he made some changes more in the props in the act than the actual magic content--and came home with the Grand Prix. (I still personally prefer his original Zombie routine over the Zombie bird cage for reasons I mentioned a few years ago on the Café.) ----- Amado "Sonny" Narvaez
----- Sonny Narvaez
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Bill Hegbli Eternal Order Fort Wayne, Indiana 22797 Posts |
Using a example like Lance Burton is totally wrong. I have mentioned before and I guess I have mention it again. The Judges were shocked at Lance winning at the IBM, it was only because they miscalculated the strength of the number of lay judges they chose for judges. The next year they reduced the number and changed the point system.
Lance Burton would not have won, if it was up the judges at the IBM. I was there sitting in the audience. I thought he should have won, of course. The whole convention was buzzing with the name Lance Burton before he even was seen anywhere. He won the lay judges over with his stage presence. His Dracula persona, and he never looked at what he was doing. All his magic tricks were right out of the magic books of the time. He did Fantasio Candle vanish, I do not remember him doing the Multiplying Candles in the competition. He did not even use a dove bag production, only Tony Kardyro's silk production to dove. It was like 10 or 15 years, before he entered FISM contest. I hope he won with that much practice behind him. Telling people what they want to hear, is not encouraging them, it is setting them up for failure. What year did Tina Lenert win a magic contest, I missed that one someplace. |
Sealegs Inner circle The UK, Portsmouth 2596 Posts |
Like Anatole I don't think a complete stage set is required to create what is being sought. There are many theatre groups that tour with productions that have next to no staging or props or costumes even and many are very effective at creating a complete and elaborate setting in the minds of their audience.
A competition magic act could be looked on in this context as a very short one man piece.... And with that in mind instant solutions that spring to mind are: a video projection of a door that opens into a room, with a fade through a gauze to the performer sat there with one of the boxes that we just saw on the screen.... Or; a voice over setting the scene such as a Mother or Wife's voice shouting; "Leo for the last time of asking go upstairs and get that attic sorted out"... Or; use the music-hall approach of having a girl walking on with a sign saying, "the attic". I'm sure there are a myriad of other, and better, ways of creating the setting in the imaginations of the audience. Perhaps a chat with a theatrical director from your local arts centre, university, drama group, or similar might help expand on some practical solutions. Regarding the moves... I would suggest simply applying whatever it is that best serves what it is you are trying to achieve. So if you the moves, as you are performing them at the moment, don't serve what you are trying to achieve you need to either change the way, the manner that is, in which you perform them or do something else that does achieve what you are trying to achieve. The manipulations remember just do allow you to do something...the way in which you artistically express yourself through what you do, your attitude, acting, etc will determine how what you do is perceived by the audience. A zombie ball for example can be made to look graceful, moving under total control of the will of the performer but the same moves can be performed such that the performer looks to have next to no control over the zombie ball. It might be helpful though, rather the starting with the moves, to work out what you want to do and then seek to find the methods, techniques, sleights, etc that allow you to do that. Coming up with these ideas is as equally difficult a part of the process as anything else that goes into making up a show. As for winning a competition... Well who knows what the judges are going to be looking for on any one particular day with any one particular set of judges.... but generally, from my experience of witnessing magic competitions if an act contains; an obvious display of technically skilful magic, presented with confidence in an entertaining and novel way, with flashes of originality and a good dose of that unquantifiable charisma factor that demonstrably wins over the audience, then they stand a good chance of being in contention.
Neal Austin
"The golden rule is that there are no golden rules." G.B. Shaw |
Anatole Inner circle 1912 Posts |
I re-read my post and see nothing I wrote saying that Tina Lenert won any contests. I was simply pointing out an example of a very highly regarded performer in the Art of Magic who uses minimal stage props to establish the identity of her character. If a person who enters a contest basing their perception of a good act only on acts that have previously won contests, they will not likely put a stamp of originality on their performance.
I also think it's tunnel vision to enter a magic contest and be devastated because you don't win or even place as a finalist. I was entered in the IBM Gold Medal competition in New Orleans the year that Levent won the junior division. I did not even place among the finalists. But when I walked offstage after my contest performance, Levent (who had not gone on yet) complimented me on the reaction that I got from the audience, which was largely due to my original moves with the dancing cane. Johnny "Ace" Palmer told me he remembered my contest performance (and specifically my dancing cane routine) when he saw me a few years later at another magic convention. I also won third place in the close-up contest at the IBM national convention in 1977 and got a very nice comment from Bill Larsen in GENII when he wrote up the review of the close-up contests. There were a few other contests I entered when I didn't win anything at all. But when Jack Chanin came up to me after my contest performance at an IBM convention in Miami and said he would like to market one of my tricks, I was flattered--although I didn't take him up on that offer. So there are definitely positive things about entering a magic contest whether you win or not, unless your self-image is so poor that you feel like it defines who you are. No one should enter a contest with the attitude that they will be a "failure" if they don't win first place--or even second or third place. In the few contests I've entered over the years, I have always come away with a positive feeling and met magicians who, although relative unknowns at the time, eventually became highly regarded performers in our art. In his book _Psychocybernetics_, Maxwell Maltz points out a clear distinction between being "a failure" and simply "failing to accomplish something." If Thomas Edison gave up every time he failed at trying to produce an incandescent light bulb, we might still be lighting our homes with gas. ----- Amado "Sonny" Narvaez
----- Sonny Narvaez
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Sealegs Inner circle The UK, Portsmouth 2596 Posts |
I think Anatole (Amado) is correct to say that there can much to be gained from taking part in a competition other than just the winning of it. In fact the winning of it is often a total crap shoot.
Just working towards a definitive goal within a fixed time frame can bring it's own rewards and stretch one to achieving what one otherwise might not. On the only occasion that I have ever entered a stage competition I literally stopped the show. The MC went out to introduce the next act and simply couldn't get the audience to come down off of reaction from the ending of my spot. He had to come back off stage and simply wait in the wings for the crowd to settle down. I ripped the proverbial place apart like I don't believe anyone in a similar competition before or since had or has. I also came nowhere. Ohh how the crowd disapproved... I was told afterwards that one of the judges gave me zero points across the board. He obviously didn't like me! The only person in the room that doesn't go ape over my act and he's one of the judges. You just can't plan for that. So I didn't even win my section let alone winning overall. John Archer who won the comedy prize, which was the section I was competing in, sweet man that he is, actually came up to me and apologised for getting awarded the comedy prize over me. (He kept the trophy and the prize money though ) But someone from one of the UK's biggest TV production companies was watching the show and off the back of it I ended up making my own TV pilot. That in itself was a great experience... and it was all due to coming nowhere in a competition.
Neal Austin
"The golden rule is that there are no golden rules." G.B. Shaw |
leomagnus Veteran user 303 Posts |
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On 2012-02-05 02:13, wmhegbli wrote: I have to disagree. I performed a prototype of my act in front of an audience full of both magicians and laypeople at a recent convention and it got fantastic reactions. Lance Burton's not a great example, but Tina Lenert is. She set the stage for her act with just a couple of props and appropriate costuming. In a similar way, I set the stage with a couple of deflated cardboard boxes, and bits of trash. Center-stage I have a box that say MAGIC STUFF prominently displayed. As cards appear, I toss them back in the box. I blow dust of a magic book. I also wear jeans, and a flannel shirt with sleeves rolled up.(suggestive of cleaning) At points I wipe my hands and forehead with a bandanna. At times I've added a baseball cap and iPod headphones. All these things point at the story I'm trying to communicate. I never have to implicitly say that I'm cleaning and attic, or unpacking a moving box, the audience just knows. They may not know that specifically, but they get that general idea. All this helps to turn a meaningless display of skill into a piece of magic theater. I know for a fact that audiences that watch my act "get it". It works for both magicians and laypeople. |
leomagnus Veteran user 303 Posts |
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On 2012-02-05 07:24, Anatole wrote: You're absolutely right about Cardini using flourishes in his act. At first it would seem that these are out of character, but I don't believe they were. In Mr. Fisher's book, in the chapter on the act it says: "He now begins to suggest to the audience that as a typical English clubman, if not a magican, he may know something about a pack of cards".(pg. 263) He then proceeds with card flourishes. Then during the billiard segment Mr. Fisher says after describing criticism the Cardini received for the ball roll piece; "Besides, who is to say that in Cardini's condition, an inanimate ball might not take on a life of its own beyond his control?"(pg. 293) Another reason that I believe Cardini did the flourishes was to try to show mastery over the magic that was going on about him. He was tipsy gentleman, who was being humiliated by magic to a certain extent, in front of someone. It's natural that he would want to regain some measure of dignity. I think that in his act even the flourishes fit in, even if not in the most obvious way. I'm dying(and will have to) to know what the story for the act was that ran through Cardini's mind. R.I.P Cardini. Very good point about Tina Lenert. I totally agree. However, I don't think that the streetlamp did much for Lance Burton act on the level of audience reception. He won the audience over the natural charm, grace, and flawless manipulations. You're also right about stage presence and pleasing personality being more important than originality. If the audience doesn't like you first, they won't care about your tricks, original or not. -Leo |
leomagnus Veteran user 303 Posts |
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On 2012-02-05 10:14, Sealegs wrote: You're right about the moves. You should know what you want to communicate to the audience first, and then think about the moves that you'll use to communicate with. The move monkey in me wants to use the hardest moves, but it's extremely hard to communicate befuddlement while doing one handed twirling 5 card productions. As for losing a magic competition just because one guy hated you, been there done that. This last summer, I won second in a competition for manipulation. The guy who won was one of the many people who told me I'd won it when I came offstage. All the judges gave me higher scores than the winner except for one judge who gave me lower marks than anyone else. No comment or critique, no explanation, just bad scores. I never found out who it was either.(sigh) |
Pete Biro 1933 - 2018 18558 Posts |
Just do it. Right or wrong you will learn from the experience.
As far as Lance winning the IBM Gold Medal. I was one of the judges. I do not recall a "bunch" of lay judges, maybe one. The judge voting was all but two judges giving him the win. The two "NO" votes were Bill Larsen and yours truly. We knew our two votes would NOT have kept him from winning, but we voted "NO" to make a point. Bill said, "This act would be great at the Magic Castle, but would not be good enough for the "It's Magic" show. My vote was to point out that if he took this act to FISM it would fail due to the store-bought props. I wrote about this in my Genii column. After his first unhappy response of my writing, he later thought I might be right... so he then worked hard to change the act and the rest is history. Interestingly, in the preliminaries Lance came second in points, but in the final he performed much stronger.
STAY TOONED... @ www.pete-biro.com
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ebusojar Regular user 126 Posts |
Hey Leo!
First off, it sounds like an intriguing premise. The sorcerer's apprentice is a truly classic storyline for a reason. I'm not as well versed in competition procedure and judging as many other people on this site, but maybe I could offer a few tips in terms of performance. Are flourishes magic? In my opinion, no. As has been said, floursihes are demonstrations of skill while magic, to me, is about something that exists just outside of the realm of skill - it has that extra level of astonishment and unbelievability. That said, I believe many floursihes can be presented as magic, especially when the context of the flourish exists in a magical frame. Let me offer an example of a beautiful act that we're probably all familiar with, at least in passing: Soma's FISM act (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jucxw56RDik). In the coin section, there are various appearances of coins, followed by coin roll outs. While a roll out move is more traditionally a coin flourish, within the context of these appearances (and inparticular with the "cha-ching" noise conditioning of money appearing), I think it takes on a very magical quality. As for some of the "Asian moves" - I haven't delved very deep into them at all (the high-speed productions a la An Ha Lim just look like dropping/pouring cards out of your hands to me), but yes: in my opinion they look much more manipulative than magical. Which isn't to say that they're wrong or right (after all, they tend to compete in the manipulation category), but when I watch them, it feels quite showoff-y. The moves aren't contextualized and made to look magical (the context is: look, a card... another card... and another card... Why the heck does this guy like sitting around pulling cards out of the air?!?!). In terms of what judges might be looking for, I think that, yes, originality is a part of it, but it's really the showmanship/presentation of the individual that will make a routine. Soma's act isn't loaded with new material (The newspaper bit and billiard ball moves adapted to cell phones are the main "new" things), and an even better example would be David Sousa's FISM act from 2006 (a second place finish I believe). It's 6 and a half minutes with virtually no original material (perhaps a little bit of the jumbo card work is new, but overally, it's incredibly straightforward and one could say traditional even). What makes these two performances so incredible is the characters they develop through the stories they weave; Both reach us on an emotional level (the first plays more to our comedic instincts while the other is a pathos-filled reflection on love). I think all of us at some point have or have been tempted to do something "because we can." It's a hard thing to avoid with magic. The pitfall to avoid with that tendency is to come off as arrogant by constantly shoving the 'look what I can do' mentality down our audience's throats. As long as your moves (and ergo your magic effects) are well rationalized in your mind, your story, and your script, I see no reason why your routine couldn't come together as an award winning act. I look forward to seeing it! Evan P.S. I took some set design courses in college, and was priviledged to have an incredible professor. I think it's more than possible to suggest an attic with very few choice props and the way you interact with your environment. Also, don't get hung up on making it LOOK like an attic - as long as it FEELS like one, your thoughts will come across. I know that sounds incredibly vague and theatrical/dramatic, but try breaking down what makes an attic an attic: What qualities differentiate it from other rooms, and maybe what physical characteristics best say "attic" and then choose a few of those to really emphasize. If you want to talk more about that or any of this, please feel free to PM me. Good luck!
Evan Northrup
www.evannorthrup.com |
leomagnus Veteran user 303 Posts |
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On 2012-02-06 12:51, ebusojar wrote: Thanks for the advice. Soma was definitely a major inspiration for me after Tommy Wonder and Cardini. His act really shows that story and presentation are what really set an act apart. That's the reason he won the Grand Prix over all the Asian manipulators. Hope you get to see my the act. Looking forward to showing it off at the IBM! -Leo |
leomagnus Veteran user 303 Posts |
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On 2012-02-06 01:50, Pete Biro wrote: I'll do it alright! As for the Lance Burton example, you're completely right about the store bought props. You can perform the classics right off the shelf better than anyone else, but it'll only get you so far. For you to compete with any chance of winning in a competition like Fism, you need to individualize your act by making it in someway unique. That was one of the goals I had for myself when I started brainstorming my act. I'd been performing classic manipulations in competitions, and placing. But I'd never win. I'd be complimented for the smoothness and quality of my act, but the critique was always "It's just another manipulation act. Nothing special". Well, I hope this act will be something "special". Cheers, -Leo |
Rolf Reiner Loyal user Mallorca - Spain 229 Posts |
Leo, the answer to your question, as stated in the beginning, is right within the context of your act. You play the Sorcerer apprentice that encounters magic troubles. Well then, all you need is a motivation in the plot to justify the furious moves. Perhaps taking a sip of a magic potion with strange effects, perhaps it is a magic word you try from the book... you get the idea. Whatever it is, it instantly gives you unexpected super-dexterity and ability. Do all the crazy moves and freak out at your newly found powers. Do not show it off... just let it thunder down upon you, be as astonished as the audience. Then, perhaps, the effect passes and you are back to normal and ready to try another trick in the book...
Plot-wise, this idea can have potential, is instantly recognizable by the audience, and most of all: can be very entertaining. Hope that triggers some new avenues to explore. RR |
leomagnus Veteran user 303 Posts |
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On 2012-02-06 17:01, Rolf Reiner wrote: Ha-Ha. The idea made me laugh! Great food for thought. Will definitely think on it. Thanks. -Leo |
Bill Hegbli Eternal Order Fort Wayne, Indiana 22797 Posts |
I believe Rolf Reiner had some excellent story line ideas, that make perfect sense. It brought to memory the movie "The Sorcerer's Apprentice" with Nicholas Cage.
Leo is now getting a big head even before he won anything. That is an excellent attitude for you attract help, keep it up. The real you will surface. Ha-Ha! to you. |
Rolf Reiner Loyal user Mallorca - Spain 229 Posts |
I think the best idea is:
Put on a CD or audio guide that teaches card moves, with a "teaching voice". "The first lesson is how to cut a deck or cards... etc" It starts slowly and you struggle to follow. The recording speeds up and gets overly complicated, yet you are somehow able to follow - to your own surprise. At the end the voice can say "Very good, see how easy it was?" If that does not get a reaction, your audience is dead. This idea has a more modern connotation and you can create a recording that suits the moves you already know. OK, now I need to get back to having ideas for my own show... |
leomagnus Veteran user 303 Posts |
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On 2012-02-07 06:00, Rolf Reiner wrote: Thanks again for the ideas. -Leo |
Rolf Reiner Loyal user Mallorca - Spain 229 Posts |
Blurting out ideas is relatively easy... the hard work is to make them into an act. As Eberhard Riese stated: "There are hundreds of problems to be solved in a magic act." If you don´t have his book, called Foundations, consider purchasing it. Probably the best investment for someone preparing a competition act.
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