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theamazingryan New user 95 Posts |
Coins are not my strong suit. I have bobo and jay noblezadas coins dvd and I have been practicing a number of sleights for a good long while. I have them down to where I can do them almost invisibly, and nobody ever catches the actual move but they tend to know 'something' has happened evenif they don't know what. Any advice on polishing up my handling with proper body movement and misdirection? is there a good book on this subject?
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itlust Regular user 176 Posts |
Juan Tamariz 5 points in magic
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theamazingryan New user 95 Posts |
Cheers! much appreciated
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Octopus Sun Special user Wiggle Wiggle 586 Posts |
You need to practice in front of a mirror, make vids of yourself and then watch yourself work.
You will see your mistakes etc and then you can consciously work to improve those areas. Your stuttering ie where your spec's tend to know 'something' has happened, means you are thinking to much on how to do that movement at that moment, causing a momentary standstill during your performance, and it can be seen if you vid yourself. you will understand what I mean after watching yourself a few times. |
theamazingryan New user 95 Posts |
Very helpful replies. THanks!
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Mb217 Inner circle 9520 Posts |
Sun mentions some good points in watching yourself, listen to him here.
Also, the biggest element here is time, it really takes time to pull it all together behind getting the sleights down good. It's also about understanding the pyschology of how specs understand what you do, understanding how they scan the moments as to what they see or what they think they see. Keep at it, as the moves slowly meld together so will everything else you need to make the magic more and more.
*Check out my latest: Gifts From The Old Country: A Mini-Magic Book, MBs Mini-Lecture on Coin Magic, The MB Tanspo PLUS, MB's Morgan, Copper Silver INC, Double Trouble, FlySki, Crimp Change - REDUX!, and other fine magic at gumroad.com/mb217magic
"Believe in YOU, and you will see the greatest magic that ever was." -Mb |
mago.niko Loyal user Athens, Greece 286 Posts |
Every "secret" move has to be done undercover of something else.
For example, when you hold a coin on ft rest position, cp it while your hand is moving to pick up something (such as another coin) Larger movement always hides the smaller. Apply this to every move you 're doing and you 'll have real magic. As Gary Kurtz says in his wonderful book "Leading with your head" not only they shouldn't see a move, they shouldn't expect it. I strongly recommend this book. It made me a better magician.
Searching for the magic side of life...
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fonda57 Inner circle chicago 3078 Posts |
I second that on Leading With Your Head. He writes about active and relax states, which most definitly can help with misdirection.
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Tom Frank V.I.P. industrial Strength Magic 493 Posts |
Video rehersal from a variety of angles. . .
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Atom3339 Inner circle Spokane, WA 3242 Posts |
Do sleights ALL the time. You can CP or FP coins while driving a car. You can write with a pen or pencil while using FP. I go to a restaurant and use the utensils and cups and glasses with coins in FP the entire time. Be creative with what you CAN do while palming coins. The other day, I spent most of the time with coins in Downs' Palm, watching the angles. This helped me get used to the feeling of holding the coins in that manner for an extended time. No one suspected the hidden coins. THIS is how you get more accustomed to the sleights and they become more natural.
TH
Occupy Your Dream |
Mipple New user London, UK 76 Posts |
One other thing to consider (if you're not doing it already) is to make sure you practice the routine WITHOUT doing the sleights. For example, if the routine calls for you to do a retention vanish at some point, practice placing the coin in the hand for real and then carrying on as far as you can - then try and make sure the version with the sleights looks as close to the "true" version as possible.
One of the things I've found is that it's often the movements around the sleights rather than the sleights themselves which can tend to give things away. Consider a very basic sequence where you: pick up a coin in one hand; display it on your open palm; then turn your hand palm down, pretending to drop it into the other hand but actually retaining it in CP. Now, the actual sleight can be as good as you like, but if the way you pick up the coin and display it in the right place on your palm to CP doesn't look natural and casual then the spectators will know something's going on. Even though there's nothing secret about displaying a coin on your palm, it's such an inconsequential action that you've got to be able to do it in a way so that it looks like you're not concentrating on it or giving it too much importance - doing something like bouncing it around to find the exact right place will immediately make people suspicious. Mark |
Tanay Regular user 162 Posts |
I've found polishing sleights comes best with performing coin magic regularly in the real world.
You pick up on angle issues, flashing, being natural, where the audience looks (so you know how to misdirect), and much more. I used to spend countless hours in front of the mirror trying to make my sleights angle-proof or at least pick up on bad angles, but just performing them in the real world for 5 minutes makes you learn so much more... Like Eric Jones says, "The only way to get good is to get caught!".
Tanay
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Peter Stobie Regular user Milwaukee, WI 177 Posts |
Quote:
On 2012-02-19 13:29, Mb217 wrote: :spinningcoin: Mb217 is right on! This is something I have been working on as well. Since I am still in "the needs a lot of improvement" phase, I can't say much from experience, but I will say for misdirection read "Slydini's" Works and get some vid with David Roth for technique and subtleties and your improvement will begin. Good luck! |
leomagnus Veteran user 303 Posts |
Eye contact, and many real performances are the best advice that I can give you. Practice can only get you so far, to really know where your routines and sleights are weak, perform for real people.
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hp Regular user 163 Posts |
Henning Nelms in his classic (and thought-provoking) "Magic and Showmanship" (Dover Books) emphasizes the importance of having a mental script when doing an effect. It is important and the reason to make your slights so well-practiced is so that when you do your effect you can tell yourself in your mental script that you are REALLY doing the magic. If you believe, then they will believe.
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Mb217 Inner circle 9520 Posts |
Hey thanks Pete, I have definitely learned a thing or two in this stuff along a winding way.
It sounds a bit off but don't be afraid to fail as there's a lot to learn in failure, I'm here to tell'ya. It might not look that way as much anymore but I still make mistakes at times, I still drop coins while doing an effect every now and again (did it again just this morning). I don't curse those moments anymore, instead I sorta smile, grin & bear it, knowing that I've just been poked again to learn something better than I thought I did. Much more often now without fighting it, I learn the lesson and continue better on my way as to that and even bigger things. It's all taught me a lot and I am indeed better for it. The proof is in the pudding. It's one thing to get all the moves down practicing things by yourself but it all works quite a bit differently when you present it to others, and really it's their perspectives that you need a real handle on, how they perceive the moments. So if they suspect something or even catch you, all that's being said is that you need to work on some more things and better understand the more complete experience. So mentally, don't just practice but practice how you play. That is do it the way you would do it whether there's a spec there or not. It can be helpful. I have dropped a thousand, no maybe 10,000 coins to get to to where I'm at right now, and with all that hopefully I'll drop a few more to learn even better and better. It is through "mis-takes" that we learn any such varying levels of exactness on the journey of progress. So don't check every few feet, better to check every few miles and with any true diligence you should see and do things good - better - best!
*Check out my latest: Gifts From The Old Country: A Mini-Magic Book, MBs Mini-Lecture on Coin Magic, The MB Tanspo PLUS, MB's Morgan, Copper Silver INC, Double Trouble, FlySki, Crimp Change - REDUX!, and other fine magic at gumroad.com/mb217magic
"Believe in YOU, and you will see the greatest magic that ever was." -Mb |
plungerman Loyal user 287 Posts |
Fantastic advise here, all around. Gets me busy as well.
Part of what will polish is the use of slights in transit, as you've seen in Tamariz. A move is never done on its own once you've got the basics down. Re-tool your moves so that they each live behind one or two actions that are their own. This also goes to rehearsing each ENTIRE routine. David Roth pointed out that too much mirror practice can make you look strange after a while. Again, Great! advice, guys. P |
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