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Bill Palmer Eternal Order Only Jonathan Townsend has more than 24312 Posts |
The discussion of professional and amateur has little or nothing to do with who is an artist.
Punx had a fairly long section in [1]Farewell Performance[/1] concerning magic as an Art. To Punx, in order for magic to be an Art, it needed to have a discernable style. Then, to qualify as Art, the performance had to make an emotional connection to the audience. When a performer simply goes through the motions flawlessly, like an automaton, that's not art. But when he or she touches the soul of the audience, that's Art. Rene Lavand - Artist Juan Tamariz - Artist I could go on, but I don't think it's necessary.
"The Swatter"
Founder of CODBAMMC My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups." www.cupsandballsmuseum.com |
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Deceptor New user Omaha 46 Posts |
Noses and opinions; everyone has one.
Always leave yourself an out.
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Alan Munro Inner circle Kentwood, Michigan, USA 5952 Posts |
Quote:
On 2012-05-02 02:10, Bill Palmer wrote: I agree. It's the "professional" who is inconsistent that makes some amateurs look so much better. |
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Bill Palmer Eternal Order Only Jonathan Townsend has more than 24312 Posts |
One of the best amateur magicians I have ever seen perform is a fellow who posts regularly here. He understands how to be consistent. Fewer than a handful of magicians of any level will ever achieve what he has done with the cups and balls, simply because he has dedicated a major chunk of his life to doing something that is basically completely original with the trick.
There are a couple of pro's I know who seem to think that uncontrollable ad-libbing in the middle of a routine is the key to success. They are mistaken. It takes discipline to be good, whether you call yourself an amateur or a professional. However, these aside, by and large, most amateur magicians don't need to tell people they are amateurs. The moment they start performing they do or say something that lets the world know that they are duffers. Even though he was never paid much for performing, Stewart James' work was always consistently high quality. He was a major thinker. Perhaps being sequestered at home during the long Canadian winters gave him time to think. Nothing that I know of will improve a budding professional magician's act more than learning that he has lost his day gig. When he is put into the position of HAVING to earn a living by magic, and having to keep a roof over his head by performing, he or she will move mountains to improve his/her act.
"The Swatter"
Founder of CODBAMMC My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups." www.cupsandballsmuseum.com |
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bishthemagish Inner circle 6013 Posts |
Quote:
On 2012-05-05 00:47, Bill Palmer wrote: I agree - however if I may add, doing more shows. My dad used to say (and Jay Marshall agreed) the difference between the amateur magician and professional was 200 shows. I tell my students that amateurs practice magic and professionals build up a practice of magic (a magic business). At least that is the way I look at it from my own point of view.
Glenn Bishop Cardician
Producer of the DVD Punch Deal Pro Publisher of Glenn Bishop's Ace Cutting And Block Transfer Triumphs |
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Donnie Buckley V.I.P. Cleveland, Ohio 1123 Posts |
Bish, that reminds me of the old adage: "The amateur change his act and the professional changes his audience."
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Bill Palmer Eternal Order Only Jonathan Townsend has more than 24312 Posts |
Most amateurs (and some professionals) do not actually have "an act." They have a number of tricks. There may or may not be any rhyme or reason for why the particular sequence or roster of tricks is performed.
"The Swatter"
Founder of CODBAMMC My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups." www.cupsandballsmuseum.com |
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bishthemagish Inner circle 6013 Posts |
I have a show not an act. I am a show "owner". I can do an act if I want to but I would rather perform a complete program - and I add more - or take out what is needed for the situation and the group (venue) I am going to be performing in.
So there is the basic show - and then I add, music (sound system) or larger tricks if needed. This idea of doing several kinds of shows is really broken down into the clients needs. If the need is close up or stage, adults, kids, family, or high school grad nights, colleges, or festivals. I find the markest are different yet the show really doesn't change that much and in my opinion only improves with time. Like fine wine.
Glenn Bishop Cardician
Producer of the DVD Punch Deal Pro Publisher of Glenn Bishop's Ace Cutting And Block Transfer Triumphs |
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Bill Palmer Eternal Order Only Jonathan Townsend has more than 24312 Posts |
That's still basically an act. It's just set up so you can expand it if necessary. You aren't just coming out and doing a set of completely unrelated things.
"The Swatter"
Founder of CODBAMMC My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups." www.cupsandballsmuseum.com |
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Frank Tougas Inner circle Minneapolis, MN 1712 Posts |
Okay and now should we take on "Part time pro"? Sorry, sorry I take it back, Honest!
Frank Tougas The Twin Cities Most "Kid Experienced" Children's Performer :"Creating Positive Memories...One Smile at a Time"
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JESmagic New user Ann Arbor, MI 90 Posts |
Quote:
On 2012-05-12 01:46, Bill Palmer wrote: Bill--that's my downfall nowadays, and one thing I am working hard to overcome. I used to have an act (when I worked at Walt Disney World) that was well orchestrated and choreographed. But, unfortunately most instances where I'm asked to perform today is very different than when I was performing professionally back then. Often it is impromptu, at a conference or dinner meeting, where I have no prep time, and few props. So, over the past year, I've been trying to create an "act" in that venue...which I have found quite challenging. I talked at length with Doc Eason about this, and he has given me some helpful pointers--and I respect his opinion because I think he has one of the best close-up acts I've ever seen. But I find the challenge fun... |
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Bill Palmer Eternal Order Only Jonathan Townsend has more than 24312 Posts |
When I worked trade shows, I had a pattern that I worked with. Most of the trade show situations needed about an 8 to 10 minute act. There was an opener, a closer, and in between, a couple of middle pieces. The opener was the signed card in sealed envelope in wallet. I have a fast-paced comedy routine for this that is direct and to the point. The closer was ALWAYS the Anderson Newspaper Tear. In the middle I had a couple of pieces that I could use to illustrate various points about the company I was representing.
One of my favorites was Clock A Dacious. Sometimes I used the cup and ball routine I've been doing for 40+ years. I always put the sponsor's name on the envelopes that I used with the card in sealed envelope. Roger Klause told me that he felt that the envelope and wallet were redundant. Then he saw me do the routine and understood why I used both. It was part of a buildup. I used the Anderson Tear, because it helped me gather a crowd. That was the reason that by the time I had done three or four shows, I always had a crowd waiting for me to start the show. But enough of that. Everything was tied into what the sponsor did.
"The Swatter"
Founder of CODBAMMC My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups." www.cupsandballsmuseum.com |
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bishthemagish Inner circle 6013 Posts |
Quote:
On 2012-05-14 21:10, Bill Palmer wrote: As I said above - I don't do an act, (I can) I do a show and there are several reasons that make an act and a show different. Again I do a show. A light show and a heavy show.
Glenn Bishop Cardician
Producer of the DVD Punch Deal Pro Publisher of Glenn Bishop's Ace Cutting And Block Transfer Triumphs |
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Bill Palmer Eternal Order Only Jonathan Townsend has more than 24312 Posts |
If you have 24 horses and 3 cows, and you call the cows "horses," how many horses do you have?
"The Swatter"
Founder of CODBAMMC My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups." www.cupsandballsmuseum.com |
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bishthemagish Inner circle 6013 Posts |
I don't have any cows or horses I am a magician. I do own eight rabbits. However sometimes I use one rabbit in my show, sometimes two rabbits in my show, and sometimes three rabbits in my show. But most often I don't use any of the eight rabbits that I own in my show.
However the rabbits are still rabbits just as the show is still a show, even when I use or don't use one or more rabbits in it. I know a magician doing a magic show - rather than an act like Mister Electric might be a hard concept to grasp but I leave the acts to people like Mr. Electric and I continue on doing a magic show.
Glenn Bishop Cardician
Producer of the DVD Punch Deal Pro Publisher of Glenn Bishop's Ace Cutting And Block Transfer Triumphs |
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shellgame-al Veteran user Arizona, USA 352 Posts |
How I have taken the differences from one saying they are a amateurs magician, is they do other things for a living besides magic. Not that it makes him any less at what they do. When I hear someone say their a professional magician, I take it as a person that preforms magic as a full time job for their income. But, not that it makes him any better then a amateur.
Manufacture of 3 Shell Game Sets & 3 Disk Monte Sets
3shells.com and magicswindles.com |
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