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martydoesmagic Inner circle Essex, UK 1669 Posts 
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Quote:
It would be interesting to hear Armando's experiences with people and the different reactions he has received with this piece as to what spectators have verbalized at the reveal and after it has had time to soak in. Have to take that clinic I guess LOL Yes it would be intereting to hear Armando's take on this. The problem with this kind of situation is that the magician is often not present when the spectator starts to analyse the routine (or discuss it with other who saw it too). Some spectators would suspect the technique being used, but discount it because they turned the card over themselves. So maybe my concern about the structure of this piece is somewhat unfounded. However, I still think the effect as a whole would be more powerful if the card was never named outright. Quote:
Incidentally, I went back and watched Helder Guimaraes progressive sandwich effect which is near identical in many ways to Empanada, from his red Mirror DVD. It too is a beautiful routine and uses a spectator peek, which would fit into Marty's liking I'm sure moreso tha the methodology behind Empanada. I'll have to look into this. thanks. Marty |
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BarryFernelius Inner circle Still learning, even though I've made 2537 Posts
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Yes it would be intereting to hear Armando's take on this. The problem with this kind of situation is that the magician is often not present when the spectator starts to analyse the routine (or discuss it with other who saw it too). Some spectators would suspect the technique being used, but discount it because they turned the card over themselves. So maybe my concern about the structure of this piece is somewhat unfounded. Now we're getting somewhere. Have you talked with audience members after one of Armando's performances? I brought a group of my friends to the Magic Castle back in January. Armando was kind enough to do a special performance of his close-up act for my friends. Empanada was the final effect. Every person in my group was well-educated, intelligent, and skeptical. No one was even close to the correct solution. I observed something else that may be interesting to you. As the group discussed Empanada, every one of them misremembered the procedure--and they did so in exactly the same way. I don't think that this was a coincidence. After all, none of them could watch that performance over and over again in slow motion on video. That's the type of conviction and immediacy that only happens in a live performance. Finally, I know for certain that Armando has done more thinking about this effect than any of the folks posting in this thread. In fact, you'd be shocked to hear how much work Armando has put into this effect.
"To achieve great things, two things are needed: a plan and not quite enough time."
-Leonard Bernstein |
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MagicofDesperado Elite user 487 Posts
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I don't think anyone said Armando hasn't laboured over this effect and it's construction and as I stated before, your observations regarding spectators reactions and remembrances echo what I thought would be the case.
Personally I think it's a beautiful routine and as Thought-of card effects are my absolute favorite items, I can see some of why Armando made the choices he did. I hope one day to take that class and hear it first-hand as to exactly its constructed as such. Dave |
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martydoesmagic Inner circle Essex, UK 1669 Posts
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Barry,
I'm not saying that Empanada is a bad routine - in fact I think it is a great routine. I was just pointing out a possible weakness which I noticed after seeing the effect performed once in a live situation. My original post was too heavy handed, and I'm happy to admit that. But I'll still stand by my original observation. If I noticed it, then some spectators will do so as well. If these people are in the minority, then I guess this isn't a big problem. Marty |
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MagicofDesperado Elite user 487 Posts
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Well I think once "inside" as a magician it inadvertently skews your mindset as well and you become more critical of what actually flys and doesn't, thereby forgetting when we were on the receiving end.
Personally, I love to absolutely floored and I remember the last time I was horribly mystified which was so great, was at one of the EMC's where the magician Anton Lopez performed "The Tenebrio". Beautiful. I remember scooting forward in my chair glaring closer at the screen as those little sailboats moved LOL Dave |
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BarryFernelius Inner circle Still learning, even though I've made 2537 Posts
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Marty,
No worries; I know that you're not saying that Empanada is a bad routine. And you are completely justified in pointing out a possible weakness. But you also wrote: Quote:
Some spectators would suspect the technique being used, but discount it because they turned the card over themselves. Exactly! And this isn't accidental. At the points in the procedure where spectators might suspect something, Armando has carefully constructed his routine to cancel those suspicions. In fact, he's constructed the routine so that their memory of the trick is not what actually happened, not at all.
"To achieve great things, two things are needed: a plan and not quite enough time."
-Leonard Bernstein |
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martydoesmagic Inner circle Essex, UK 1669 Posts
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Quote:
Exactly! And this isn't accidental. At the points in the procedure where spectators might suspect something, Armando has carefully constructed his routine to cancel those suspicions. In fact, he's constructed the routine so that their memory of the trick is not what actually happened, not at all. Yeah, I agree. The routine is well constructed in that regard. However, the weakness is still present and there are several techniques that would eliminate it entirely. I don't doubt Armando has considered this, and has a good reason to use the method he does - I just can't understand what that reason is. Marty |
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MagicofDesperado Elite user 487 Posts
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Well if you're familiar with various "think of a card" procedures and variations then you'd probably know exactly why haha!
Dave |
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martydoesmagic Inner circle Essex, UK 1669 Posts
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Just to clarify, when I stated that I didn't understand why Armando has constructed his trick in this way, I was expressing a failure on my part, not his. I'm sure the only way to find out if this percieved weakness is a real problem is to talk to the man directly about the matter.
Maybe I should just shut up, cough up the dough and attend one of his workshops! 
Marty |
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Posted: Jun 10, 2012 12:11 pm 
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