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the fritz Special user 647 Posts |
Hello all,
A few searches turned up little of use so the question I'm posing regards the use of the 10 to 20 force. For those of you who use it currently, what is your justification for the procedure? In other words, why do you add digits to get a new number and do a second count (at least why do you tell your audience you do this)? Those who don't currently use this are still welcome and encouraged to share ideas. Maybe we can come up with something beyond the "to further randomize" excuse. I am currently using it in an effect because it efficiently accomplishes two things (a force and a control) with one procedure, however I would like some more ideas on how it could be presented so that the procedure makes logical sense. I welcome ideas/input. |
SIX Inner circle New York City 1772 Posts |
From my understanding, its to be a more random choice..so that they end up at a position that they would even have know they would have.
Its not much, but some what logical. |
mlippo Inner circle Trieste (Italy) 1227 Posts |
I am currently working on a routine to add to my repertoire. This routine is heavily inspired by an act by Martin Nash and which he published in his Master Card Magician vol. 1 DVD.
I start by having first the AS found by use of this force, then the AC by spelling its name, then the last two aces by using the Gemini Twins handling. From there I would go on with other effects. In my case (still working on the patter) I think I will talk about statistics. First how many different possibilities the pack could be in (that's 52! = 8,0658175170943878571660636856404e+67, by the way ...). Then I'd ask for a number: "not too big nor too small. Maybe between 10 and 20...". At this point I would go on saying: " You see, 14 is little more than a quarter of the pack." And talk about the possibilities to have AT LEAST one of the aces among them. "But let make it even more strict. Let's have just one card...." Then I would count 5 cards (in this example). "You see, now there is 1 out of 13 chances that this card is one of the aces. But if we want a particular ace? For example the most important one, the one with the logo on it, the AS? Then it would be 1 out of 52, right?. Would you believe that THIS card is the AS?" Just a thought. I've often seen the usual line: "Magical numbers are alway one-digit numbers. So if I add 1 and 4 of 14, we get 5. Let's count 5 cards now..." I personally think that any justification, even if silly, is better than just doing it. mlippo |
Atom3339 Inner circle Spokane, WA 3242 Posts |
The fritz, Adding two digits to make one is a given in Numerology; has been for centuries; a very excuse.
TH
Occupy Your Dream |
the fritz Special user 647 Posts |
Nice thoughts guys. I especially like the numerology idea. I have always had difficulty saying that "we'll further randomize your number by adding the two digits together" because that isn't really randomizing anything... actually the opposite by taking a random number someone else thought of and manipulating it for our own purposes. Of course the spectator doesn't know this, but I always felt there could be some better justifications.
I'll keep working on it and post some thoughts here as they come. Also there is a nice thread on this force which I found during one of my searches, with a few thoughts of my own on justifying asking for a number between 10 and 20 in the first place. http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewt......&forum=2 I guess this current thread is aimed at step two of the force |
Atom3339 Inner circle Spokane, WA 3242 Posts |
I'm working on using this Force more often. The audience seems to like it whenever I start that part of the patter, "In Numerology..." I think it's because you appear to be more knowledgable about esoteric things; and the perception is magicians SHOULD know about such things. Using MEANINGS of numbers is good also; VERY good excuse / "reason" when you have to use a specific number. Examples, "5 represents Man. 7 means Completeness." Etc., etc. There are all sorts of studies in these areas. BUT it even sounds good if you make it up.
TH
Occupy Your Dream |
Steven Keyl Inner circle Washington, D.C. 2630 Posts |
My favorite justification of this force that I've seen is by Mick Ayers in The Act IV and the routine is called S'lie. It's an effect that can be done in person or over the phone. Can't give away the presentation as that is the primary value of the routine. But it is not too expensive and the routine contains not only my favorite justification for the force but my favorite "over the phone" presentation period.
http://mickayreswares.com/the_act_series He has a special right now--get all the Act Series books for $100. They are complete presentations ranging in length from 20-45 minutes. All card material. Visit the link for more details. NOTE: I don't know Mick, have never corresponded with him, and have no financial interest in his products.
Steven Keyl - The Human Whisperer!
B2B Magazine Test! Best impromptu progressive Ace Assembly ever! "If you ever find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause, and reflect." --Mark Twain |
the fritz Special user 647 Posts |
Nice, Steven. Thanks for the recommendation. I've heard all good things about Mick Ayres Wares I have a few ideas floating around in my head right now. I'll post soon.
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the fritz Special user 647 Posts |
One idea is to have a spectator cut off about a quarter of the deck and count the cards onto your hand. Then you can add the digits and count down. This doesn't solve the original question but it is a little different than counting down to a number twice... makes the whole procedure a little more palatable in my mind.
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Francois Lagrange Veteran user Paris, France 380 Posts |
I don't think that there will be a generic solution to this, it'll have to be tailored to the trick.
One idea could be using the arrow of time, which supposedly is uni-directional. Therefore you count the cards one way, one at a time. However you're about to show it's not the case: time is bi-directional. You then add up the digits of the selected number and count backwards. The adding up is part of the special physics of going back in time. Or use some space-continuum hiatus or black hole etc ... Yes it's mambo-jumbo, but it the context of a trick could be seen as humorous or ... insane.
Protect me from my friends, I'll deal with my enemies.
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Claudio Inner circle Europe 1927 Posts |
That's nice. I remember using the force with a story trick where the protagonist took a few steps forwards and then some backwards.
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the fritz Special user 647 Posts |
I agree, Francois. I think it all depends on your presentation angle.
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warren Inner circle uk 4138 Posts |
The best use of this force for my money is the effect much further than that presented by Mr Ammar on his easy to master dvd's although I forget off hand who the actual effect belongs too, but as I say the force makes perfect logical sense in the presentation used by the great Ammar
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Claudio Inner circle Europe 1927 Posts |
Stewart James
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