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jokerthehoudini New user 66 Posts |
Hey everybody hows it going?here is my question
Now ive been getting pretty searous in coins got some dvds Knockout coin magic Coin man walking Homer liwags coin 1&2 Covert coins Metal 1,2,3 And bobos book of course Now my question is Ive been watching metal 1,i watched 2&3 but never practice anything till metal 1 is mastered Well its been like a month watching and still havent mastered it yet but I know all moves and all tricks now I'm tryin to learn all moves and all tricks in both hands,My main question here is lets say I watch all dvds of metal and learn everything what would I be considered?a expert and coins still in the middle? Above beginner or still a beginner? Now just for you guys wodering I didn't just go and get all these dvds just in one shot its things I gathered thru my time of doing magic I would say homer liwag coin 1&2 are pretty much a trick I do all the time I prolly been doing it for about 2 years already then I picked up metal dvds Also am I on the right track to learning coins? Sorry for my typeos I did this by my iphone Thanks guys Henry |
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SmileAndNod Veteran user 316 Posts |
Don't worry about labels. Just keep improving.
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jokerthehoudini New user 66 Posts |
I didn't even think if it that way thanks man!
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dennis8 New user The Netherlands 41 Posts |
Well,
Ever heard the saying, "Takes a moment to lear - a Lifetime to master" ? Because after a month you simply cannot have mastered all moves from Metal 1 (30 or so?) It takes a time to even master a couple of sleights. But as for being on the right track, that depends on what you would like to achive. If you go to watch Metal 2, and you take one or two routines from it and you note down wich sleights they use, go back to Metal 1 and study those sleights. Then open up bobo's and find the same sleights ( or similar ones ) and see what is written about it. Then take note's about the similarities or the differences and practise them. And if you need help with a particular sleight or routine, you can get advise here -Dennis |
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Ramin Regular user 119 Posts |
Coin-magic (all magic really) is a journey. There is always more to learn. just start working on routines that you can use in the enviroments your in the most. Find a routine you like and work heavily on that and the moves needed to perform it. At the same time you can slowly start working on other sleights you may need in a future routine, but make those less of a priority. I also try to find routines that use moves I already have perfected. This allows me to go to more of a rehearsal type practice on the new routine, because I have the basic mechanics down (see "The Ostrich Factor") for tips on this.
I also give myself long range goals to slowly acheive, eg.. I'm learning to Classic Palm and Back-Clip in my Left Hand, I have an idea for a routine but need these skills to make it happen. I figure it'll be a couple years before I have them down enough for the routine (I've been working on them for at least 2 years). In the mean-time I work up routines that utilize moves I already know. A month is a very short amount of time to learn all the material on Metal 1, give yourself much more time. Also do mirror work, do the action without performing the move,then when you do the sleight make it look the same. As far as where your at skill wise, don't categorize it. I've been working with coins for more than 30 years and I consider myself about halfway there. So many wonderful things to do that you can't learn them all. RR |
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jokerthehoudini New user 66 Posts |
Hey guys thanks for all the feed back,i just want to clear up one thing ive never said I have mastered all the moves in one month I said ive been working on everything for about a month,im leaning all moves and all slights in both hands so I bet it would take longer then that,i just was wonding if this is on the right track as in a starting point?
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Mb217 Inner circle 9520 Posts |
Welcome to the Café, Joker and all the rest of you guys here.
Nice to have all the stuff that you have and work on things but really, if you've been doing Coin One for 2 years, exactly what are you learning really from Metal 1, since it covers pretty much the basics as to coin magic, which you had to be using most of to do Coin One, or at least do it well? In general, the most important element in coin magic is not quantity but the time it takes to get to quality. Many times, a lot of guys can do the moves but they have a long way to go as to learning how to present. Many need lessons in misdirection, or just plain old how to slow down some. Learning the moves in both hands is a neat trick I suppose, but hardly necessary. Just learn the effect in you dominant hand because that's mostly the way you're going to do it anyway, plus the fact that specs don't care what hand they see magic happen in. It's good to be able to CP a coin in both hands I suppose but usually all you need to do is be able to have a decent CP in your dominant hand to do effects. If you just want extra credit, then knock yourself out. You ask if you're an expert - not hardly. If you go through all the Metal DVDs, and practice a bit, you still will not do all that stuff very well with all the added ingredients necessary that must cook in you like a baking cake...Simply, it takes time. Every few months you will better understand something you thought you understood earlier. This goes on for years and years and with every new awarenes you begin to do things better than you did. It's almost like someone reading about the world and the different countries. Don't make you an expert. A Secretary of State would be considered an expert. It's not so much about how many DVDs you got or can go through as it is coming to undestand all the many parts of presenting an effect well...That part takes time. Watching a DVD and working on the moves and being able to get through them, might only take a little while. Doing them like you see Eric Jones do what he does, will take you a lot longer, maybe even longer than that. It's a journey, not a race. Try to enjoy it and just be the best you can be and keep getting better along the way. Good luck. -Mb
*Check out my latest: Gifts From The Old Country: A Mini-Magic Book, MBs Mini-Lecture on Coin Magic, The MB Tanspo PLUS, MB's Morgan, Copper Silver INC, Double Trouble, FlySki, Crimp Change - REDUX!, and other fine magic at gumroad.com/mb217magic
"Believe in YOU, and you will see the greatest magic that ever was." -Mb |
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Octopus Sun Special user Wiggle Wiggle 586 Posts |
Great insight as always from Marion.
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jokerthehoudini New user 66 Posts |
Thanks for the comments,ive been doing magic for years I do mostly stage work but I just wanted to get into a new field to practice and work on,ive been doing a classic palm For years so I'm really good at it,not trying to sound cocky...and coin 1 don't go over shuttle pass,mutobe palm,edge grip etc so that's why I go over the dvd
I undertand where you coming from but I just wanted to know if the list I got is a good source to get my hands wet or am I missing something impotant maybe one of those dvds is just for experts that I should wait to watch?also once again ive never said I'm a expert at coins, I never even watched most of the dvds someone gave them to me,im not racing to becoming the best lol...im taking my time(the reason I wanna learn evrything in both is sometimes its good to know |
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Alwow Special user Los Angeles 544 Posts |
Quote:
On 2013-01-30 15:45, Octopus Sun wrote: ^^^ What he said...
"Everything I show you is the truth... And the truth is the loveliest of lies"
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Alwow Special user Los Angeles 544 Posts |
I will also say this Joker, I've only been doing coin magic for a few months but, I have all of the Metal series (which I think is phenomenal) along with most of what you have. Like Marion said, Homer's work does cover a decent amount of stuff but not a huge amount. However, with all that you own you have a nice well rounded variety.
Ultimately, you will likely get a little bit from this and a little bit from that but where you will truly "cut your teeth" or "earn your chops" is performing for people. Find the effects and presentation will work for you and try to master that. I've watched the Metal series along with my bobo's and homer's work numerous times but being able to "do" the tricks vs. being able to performing them well for an audience which you can explain why the coins are traveling, vanishing etc. that actually makes since or has a creative/entertaining patter (besides "and just like that") will help you truly grow. Just my 2 cents. Good luck man and enjoy the journey.
"Everything I show you is the truth... And the truth is the loveliest of lies"
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jokerthehoudini New user 66 Posts |
Hey thanks yea ive been trying to step away from the same old patter everyone uses ,or the teacher of the dvds patter
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Poof-Daddy Inner circle Considering Stopping At Exactly 5313 Posts |
Labels really mean nothing, you may be an expert today and totally screw something up tomorrow. Don't let a label "stunt your growth" just do what you feel you need to do. That great that you want to learn every slight in both hands yet it is not necessary to be ambedextrious to be a great performer. Also, you can know all the moves in the world and be technically perfect but - How is your performance, audience management, confidence in performing...? I always say, "Anyone can do magic, but not everyone can perform magic". and when all else fails, listen to MB217.
Cancer Sux - It is time to find a Cure
Don't spend so much time trying not to die that you forget how to live - H's wife to H on CSI Miami (paraphrased). |
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Mb217 Inner circle 9520 Posts |
Not even sure it's all that important to become an expert really? It's just good to become as good as you can be. There are many paths along the journey and they all don't always mix well. Supposed "experts" aren't always tolerant of newbies along the way, unless they give due respect to them as the ones that know. Sometimes they are not happy with folks that come up with stuff they did not, or folks that seem as though taking shortcuts in this stuff. It all depends. But many along the way are quite helpful (The Godfather, Vinny Marini comes to mind), if you do more listening than talking and then don't so clearly show ahead of time all that you do not know, or try not to p**s people off. There are people that these big boys truly get along with and those they don't. But just because you don't get along with them don't mean you have to, to do something in this field. Many learn what they need to know to build their own houses (like Dr. Larry Barnowsky and his fabulous books and offerings on magic) and come to create very notable things. So it all depends.
Of course, all the titles named here are good ones, mostly magi's that have taken the time to provide good instruction, and well worth it I would say. But there are those that have no DVDs that have done interesting things as well, truth be told (The Great, Mickey Silver comes to mind). Also, there are magi's that put their work out as quick downloads that have some unique items to share. So, there's a lot out there one can learn from, including wonderful stuff that's shared right here amongst the craft as relationships strengthen. I just saw that Michael Eaton has a new download on a simple enough move that looks amazing, called "Splinter." I use the move myself and it kills, did it just this morning for folks in a diner. To my knowledge, it's not anywhere else but on this affordable little download. David Roth has a great download for about $5 bucks where he teaches two of his classic effects, can't beat that. Plus, you can learn stuff from guys you never heard of just as well that have come up with some truly amazing things. With any of it, you still gotta practice and learn to blend all the other ingredients in just right for it to be just right for you.
*Check out my latest: Gifts From The Old Country: A Mini-Magic Book, MBs Mini-Lecture on Coin Magic, The MB Tanspo PLUS, MB's Morgan, Copper Silver INC, Double Trouble, FlySki, Crimp Change - REDUX!, and other fine magic at gumroad.com/mb217magic
"Believe in YOU, and you will see the greatest magic that ever was." -Mb |
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shamsiel Regular user 120 Posts |
Quote:
On 2013-02-01 15:41, Mb217 wrote: couldn't agree more. Besides if someone considers herself/himself an expert are they leaving room for growth? Aproaching things as an eternal student has given me success in other things. Approaching Magic as an eternal student not only will help everyone stay challenged and focused but will put an end to the "Super Expert" lable which makes any career in any field go stale. Like every art form. The artist will never know the heights of his skill. Journey on dudes! Shamsiels two cents. |
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portellamagic New user 63 Posts |
I agree. Just keep getting better. Moves that you may think you have mastered over time will become better in some way. Smoother, less noise etc. With that being said the metal dvds I feel are excellent. One move at a time one trick at a time. Good luck with what you are doing Im sure you will get to your goal.
Nick Portella
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David Neighbors V.I.P. 4910 Posts |
Your never there! I have been doing coin magic for 45 years!!! And I am not there yet! As has been said " it's a journey. NOT a destination " !
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Al Schneider V.I.P. A corn field in WI surrounded by 1080 Posts |
If you wish to be a master, master one trick. Don't do it for the mirror. Do it for people. A song is not a song until sung for someone. A dance is not a dance until danced for someone. A magic trick is not a magic trick until it fools someone. A master will know his faults more than anyone else. To him or herself, he or she will always be a novice. In any practice the preperation must be loved as much as the delivery. If you work on many things at the same time, you will be working on many thngs at the same time. If you master one thing, you will have mastered one thing and the things near it will be improved considerably. To learn the path, you must walk it. To learn what to do next, do something. The best mirror is the eyes of others.
I have been doing magic for 53 years. I envy the people that can do magic well.
Magic Al. Say it fast and it is magical.
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Magician Shaun Special user Huntington BCH, CA 924 Posts |
I was reading this thread and thinking something very similar to what Al said. Let's look at David Roth for a second. I don't think anyone here would disagree if I called him a MASTER coin magician, right?
All of the video performances I have seen of David Roth have him performing a small assortment of effects compared to what is available in the literature. He does coins across, hanging coins, wild coin, and a few more but those to me are the iconic David Roth routines. How many routines are on the Metal DVD's? Practicing sleights and tricks will only take you so far. You have to work on routines and how you go from one move to the next. You have to present the effects thousands of times for an audience so that you can learn how to handle all of the things that happen in the real world performing. You said you are a stage performer so you understand that. I recommend, like Al, that you pick one routine and practice it until everything is perfect and it looks like real magic to everyone who sees it. Then start on a second. Continue this process until you have 3 or 4 routines and I bet you will find that you don't any more... Good luck, it sounds like you are well on your way to learning lots of great coin magic! |
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harris Inner circle Harris Deutsch 8812 Posts |
Some folks in my area call me the coin guy.
I would rather be known as the audience guy. Where your fingers end and the coins begin, can be seamless. So can your connection with your audiences. Regarding DVD's. The last set I bought were by Dr. Sawa. I won't do most of his work, but I love to watch his artistry and way he builds his routines. Harris (been on this coin journey since 1976) still with palms of aluminum foil for a lighter touch in coin magic
Harris Deutsch aka dr laugh
drlaugh4u@gmail.com music, magic and marvelous toys http://magician.org/member/drlaugh4u |
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