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bobthemagicdoerguy Regular user I can't remember where I left my 186 Posts |
So, I'm working (amongst other things) on perfecting my production from the Down's palm for a miser's dream routine I am working on. The only problem is, I can't get the coins out one at a time silently. Its driving me bonkers. Does anyone have any pointers or resources I could turn to in order to do this better? All I've got that addresses this is Bobo's, and I don't find it very helpful for this... I'm going to keep practicing on it, of course, until I can do it. However, I'm of the school of thought that practice doesn't make perfect - perfect practice makes perfect. If I am practicing it wrong, it isn't much help to learn what I am aiming for...
So far, the best way I have is to bend in my first two fingers to retrieve the coin, use my first finger to support the stack and let the bottom coin fall on my second finger, where I can slowly bring it out from under the stack. Once cleared of the rest, its easy to do silently. But that initial drop/removal is impossible for me to do silently. And at times when I do, the process is so painstakingly slow, I can't imagine getting quick at it - that, or I lose my grip on the stack and they come tumbling out. |
OliveroG Regular user 167 Posts |
You can consider using Giacomo Bertini's Edge grip production instead of that one, it's more difficult, but I think it is a little more clean and visual. here's a video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nkf6ildlrsg
I hope you understand, my dear friend, that everything you are seeing is a lie, but everything you are feeling holds true.
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bobthemagicdoerguy Regular user I can't remember where I left my 186 Posts |
Ok, Olivero, that's pretty good. Now on my list of stuff to learn.
However, it looks like the edge grip would have an upper limit of about 4-5 coins. One reason I am interested in Downs is because I can fit about 10 in there. So my original quest still holds, but I always appreciate learning about a new sleight. The more tools in the toolbox, the more problems can be repaired... |
mystre71 Inner circle martinsburg west virginia 1693 Posts |
Bob, What coins are you using ? Try find really soft coins, this will help you out a lot I think. Also using soft coins, you won't have a need to let the coin drop/fall, you can just slide it out.
Hope this helps, Joe
Walk around coin box work check it out here https://www.magicalmystries.com/products
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bobthemagicdoerguy Regular user I can't remember where I left my 186 Posts |
I'm using Ikes. What are soft coins? Is that where they've been flattened and smoothed by pressure to appear more worn?
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Octopus Sun Special user Wiggle Wiggle 586 Posts |
The coins are not flattened or pressed, that's actual wear from being up to over 100yrs old, or you can sand and buff them to make your own slicks as they are called from less worn out coins. It's a simple process, and depends upon how you want your coins to look like.
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Russell Davidson Inner circle Hampshire, England 1108 Posts |
Not sure how you go about the Miser's Dream but there are easier ways of producing the coins than palming them all in your hand. I recommend the Sylvester Pitch DVD.
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Mb217 Inner circle 9520 Posts |
Quote:
On 2013-02-13 05:55, Russell Davidson wrote: Agreed.
*Check out my latest: Gifts From The Old Country: A Mini-Magic Book, MBs Mini-Lecture on Coin Magic, The MB Tanspo PLUS, MB's Morgan, Copper Silver INC, Double Trouble, FlySki, Crimp Change - REDUX!, and other fine magic at gumroad.com/mb217magic
"Believe in YOU, and you will see the greatest magic that ever was." -Mb |
MagicJuggler Inner circle Anchorage, AK 1161 Posts |
The Sylvester pitch is definately a good slight to have under your belt for the miser's dream (and it makes for a great out of the pocket walk around miser's dream) but if you're holding the bucket it's almost impossible to do the move. As for the silent downs palm production I found that learning to let go one at a time was one of the most important parts of doing it silently, the other is when you drop it onto the right part of the curled finger so it's balanced perfectly and doesn't have to be gripped. Then the coin is worked around the stack and snapped into view. The Sylvester pitch DVD teaches this approach to producing from downs palm.
Matthew Olsen
I heard from a friend that anecdotal evidence is actually quite reliable. |
ithomson Veteran user 330 Posts |
Bob
For work where the customers don't touch the coins, you might consider chemical-softening the coins. As Octopus Sun (?) suggests, mechanically softened coins work by reducing the raised edges on the faces of the coins through .... err... mechanical means (for example, a rock tumbler). Chemical softening works by filling in the recesses on the faces, retaining the general appearance of the coins but still reducing friction (and therefore noise) between them in a stack. "Chemical-softening", by the way, is simply painting clear nail varnish over the faces of your coins (avoiding the milled edges) layer by layer until you get the effect you want. I'd recommend doing this outdoors because of the smell, and covering the drying coins with something like a glass so they don't attract dust etc. In my experience this method produces softer coins. But you could have problems with shells if you're not too careful about the drying process. Hope that helps. Ian |
Hare Veteran user 323 Posts |
Loads of practice and the use of "soft" coins is the secret to silently handling more than one coin in any hold. Switching from Ikes to Morgan Dollars gives you the built in natural softness- because they are already a hundred and some years old. Nothing substitutes for natural aging, in my opinion.
The Downs Palm is easy to overuse. It looks nice for a coin to two, but the missing thumb calls attention that something is amiss in short order, if you are using a stack. Better to have a variety of methods used for any vast production of coins. The Sylvester Pitch is a great additional way to produce vast quantities of coins. Down's lesser known Edge Palm is a more natural looking way to produce multiple coins. The notion that a person has to use a bucket is crippling and limiting- you can stow those "endless" coins in your pockets, or somewhere else handy in a more intimate setting. Too often we get caught up in a single classic idea, and become overly reliant on a single move or concept, which reveals to the audience more than it should. Best to remember each hold, pass, production is a tool in your overall magical arsenal, and make it your goal to incorporate a variety of techniques with the goal being your eventual ability to create your own unique routine using tools that you can pick or choose at will from your arsenal of magical goodies. I suspect the difference between someone who does tricks, and someone who is a mature magician, is when the conjuror is comfortable enough to "mix and match" however he wishes with the various tools in his repertoire. Then, you begin to realize that the most important thing isn't in how good your Downs Palm is, but rather how smoothly/naturually you can move a coin from Downs Palm to Edge Grip, or Backpalm, or Downs Edge Palm, Fingertip rest, and so on. Anyways, soft Morgans is the way I swing!
"Better described in The Amateur Magician's Handbook"
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Dick Oslund Inner circle 8357 Posts |
An artist is one who can do many things, but has the wisdom to do less.
--It's not quantity, it's quality. --Better to do five coins well, than ten poorly. When I was very young, I did ten coins (five from each hand, DOWNS palm). After a year or so, I did five, and the audience response was just as good. I actually prefer using IKES.
SNEAKY, UNDERHANDED, DEVIOUS,& SURREPTITIOUS ITINERANT MOUNTEBANK
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Hare Veteran user 323 Posts |
On the subject of simplicity, T. Nelson Downs managed to capture all the impact of The Miser's Dream in his elegant, scaled-down, one handed, propless masterpiece, "The Eureka Pass".
The effect is streamlined and mystifying in the extreme. Downs would simply reach up with his empty right hand, pluck a large coin from midair, and place it between the thumb and forefinger of his left. He would go on and repeat this again and again, until he had five coins in a lovely fan in his left hand. The hand was demonstratably empty between each production. The effect is difficult and a bit angly, but otherwise still gets my vote as the best coin trick of all time, due to it's mind-blowingly impossible results and it's elegance. No buckets, no gimmicks, just pure, impossible magic right in front of your face. I've only seen five magicians actually perform this during my lifetime. One of my biggest magical wishes would be to see Downs actually perform this seeming miracle in person. Does anyone here perform this neglected masterpiece?
"Better described in The Amateur Magician's Handbook"
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feher Inner circle Michigan 1421 Posts |
I suggest Nelson palming coins. Then sand them down a tad to reduce noise. Also you can easily palm ten.
It takes a lot of control to get them not to talk if you going to using ike's. You have to get that lower coin to balance on the second finger before producing Talk while produce helps.....lol Here's a clip of me producing coins from downs palm. http://m.youtube.com/index?&desktop_uri=......DvosTcfE Good luck you can do it. Tim
Mean people SUCK!!!!!!!
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bobthemagicdoerguy Regular user I can't remember where I left my 186 Posts |
Thanks for all the good advice!
So far, I have some good pointers on the Down's production, as well as at least 3 new moves to learn: Eureka pass, Sylvester pitch, and the edge grip production. "Too often we get caught up in a single classic idea, and become overly reliant on a single move or concept, which reveals to the audience more than it should. Best to remember each hold, pass, production is a tool in your overall magical arsenal, and make it your goal to incorporate a variety of techniques with the goal being your eventual ability to create your own unique routine using tools that you can pick or choose at will from your arsenal of magical goodies. " I certainly agree with this - and it is my eventual goal to create a very original presentation of the Miser's dream. I've also got Levent's DVD's on my wishlist. I plan to learn all of this in order to build the routine. Even knowing about these additional resources will give me the tools I need to flesh out my ideas and push myself further. That's why I love this place. Thanks everyone! Keep the ideas coming! |
feher Inner circle Michigan 1421 Posts |
Posted the Mobile link...opps
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ovSDvosTc......index=14
Mean people SUCK!!!!!!!
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harris Inner circle Harris Deutsch 8812 Posts |
I would suggest starting with 3 and producing 1 silent...
Then go back to starting with 2 and producing 1 silent..the second was is a given... Then go back to 3 producing 1...then 2 silent.. Then keep adding to the total # and total produced. D/P is a great addition to other methods...including stuff in It's easier than you think (Buckingham?) A few years ago, when Giacoma B. came out with his fan production..I thought no way... But as you will discover..it is Way possible with... time, mentoring, motivation, cramped hands..discouragement, encouragement..time ...practice. Long ago, when I started my journey with coins, I used both silent practice, practice with music and an old fashion metro-nome which at first went reeeeeeeeal slooooooooooooow.
Harris Deutsch aka dr laugh
drlaugh4u@gmail.com music, magic and marvelous toys http://magician.org/member/drlaugh4u |
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