|
|
Go to page [Previous] 1~2 | ||||||||||
The Amazing Pog Veteran user 372 Posts |
Excellent article daffy - and one that applied to me quite a bit. I think it's gonna take some work for me to totally shake off the residual guilt, though
'One of the safest ways to make a good performance is to have tricks which work so easily, that mechanics can be forgotten and every attention devoted to presentation' - Corinda
|
|||||||||
Dick Oslund Inner circle 8357 Posts |
Years ago, while touring Oregon, I spent a most delightful weekend with the late JERRY ANDRUS. Jerry had a very simple philosophical view of the performance of magic. He would not 'lie'! For example: Jerry would never say to a card 'taker', "Please take a card, ANY CARD YOU WISH." --when he was doing a f***e. We spent a delightful weekend!
I'm enyoying the 'conversation' you started 'd d'!
SNEAKY, UNDERHANDED, DEVIOUS,& SURREPTITIOUS ITINERANT MOUNTEBANK
|
|||||||||
Daeld New user So far, I have about 84 Posts |
Implicit in the art of magic is the fact that you'll be fooling the audience. They want to be "fooled". However, when I do magic for very young children, I make sure that I tell them that what I'm doing is just a trick. In this way, I have never really felt guilty with the deceptive aspect of magic; my audience knows its a trick and that I'm in character, playing a role. I don't know that there would be any youth or adults that would think that my sleights (no matter how good) are actually real. I think that for many people part of the fun in watching magic is wondering how it is done. Just like going to the art gallery and seeing the masterpieces of centuries gone by - part of the allure is to appreciate the skill of the painter (despite people having a relatively good idea how a painting is done).
I am a devout Christian (in fact I'm a priesthood holder in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints). Like many of you, I too have used magic to illustrate Gospel principles when teaching youth classes. Here I'm a little more careful - not because of the role-playing aspect, but rather to avoid turning too much of the attention to me and entertainment. I've felt more of magician's guilt at those moments, so I tend to avoid it unless there's a really good reason why the magic trick will bring the class a greater insight. Thus the focus is on the principles rather than on the trick or on "look how good I am". Not necessarily an easy balance. Perhaps the only other time I've felt a little magician's guilt is when I haven't revealed my trick to my wife. I mean, she figures most of them out anyway, but there are some (like TT, DT and IT tricks) that stumped her for a very long time. Still, the feeling doesn't last long! |
|||||||||
Lennard New user 2 Posts |
This is an interesting thread - thanks for starting it Daff.
Daeld: Interesting to hear your thoughts as I too happen to be a Priesthood holder in the LDS Church. I'm a complete newbie novice when it comes to magic - part of a mid-life crisis I think :o) . I've performed a couple of times at church social events. I do find myself feeling especially sensitive where a magic illusion might start to drift into theological territory (so to speak). If you believe that faith really can move the proverbial mountain (which I do) then you don't want to start telling the audience that their combined faith can make a card magically appear. I find I have to stop myself from falling into habitual 'church-speak' when describing the 'miracle' that's happening before their eyes. It's true generally that - even tho' it's in context of a magic illusion - I do feel a lot of discomfort when trying to fool the audience. But I think that has more to do with the fear of being found out / messing up / looking like an idiot than any ethical dilemma about lying. But perhaps that's what you're saying Daff - there's something going on at a subconscious level that we have to supress if we're going to work real magic with/for the audience. Maybe when I'm not quite such the newbie it'll start to get a little easier :o) . Maybe ? |
|||||||||
Daeld New user So far, I have about 84 Posts |
Quote:
On 2013-03-29 11:50, Lennard wrote: Welcome Lennard! Good to see another LDS around here! I generally make it quite clear that it is a trick and steer well clear of using explanations such as priesthood/spirit/faith as reasons for the effect. For example one time, when the Young Men ask about how Pharao's priests managed to turn staves into snakes (for which Moses made a snake to eat the other two), I will usually respond with making a handkerchief appear from thin air with the TT I carry with me all the time. I then explain that while the world might have tricks and other things that might seem cool and alluring, they are still just tricks - fake at their core (although I don't reveal how I did the trick of course!). I then contrast with the Gospel fo Jesus Christ, which has real power; power to change hearts, minds and lives. Definitely NOT something to be done in sacrament meeting! |
|||||||||
rklew64 Inner circle 1265 Posts |
Would it be totally unreasonable to avoid magic altogether? It seems shoehorning magic in the context of Catholic teachings seems always so forced. One might have a better chance incorporating interpretive dance.
I don't recall ever hearing or seeing these unknown evangelicals like Charles Colson/Billy & Franklin Graham/ to Joyce Meyer using magic. |
|||||||||
Foxlute Regular user UK 148 Posts |
As there are at least two specific sections on the Café devoted to discussing magic in the context of what seems to be predominantly Christian religious proselytisation and propaganda, can we keep that sort of special interest stuff in its place and just stick to magic here?
|
|||||||||
Daeld New user So far, I have about 84 Posts |
Quote:
On 2013-03-30 16:20, rklew64 wrote: Fair enough. Mind you, it's not like I'm using magic every Sunday on the guys. I think this year I've used it once as an attention activity with a specific purpose, rather than the focus per se. |
|||||||||
rklew64 Inner circle 1265 Posts |
Daeld, appreciate the reply. Then really there is no issue on that very practical example.
So then back on thread topic, I do not ever feel guilt, because performing magic to entertain and/or to hopefully give a moment of positive wonder is the goal. As I read the topic header again, it may be technically true but a wholly misguided statement. No Daff, I think writing more if inclined is pointless and you certainly do bring up an aspect, but I opine it is not prevalent. For my experience after attending rather many lectures from Ammar to Knight to Gregory Wilson, not once ever "magician guilt" was ever mentioned by them. After picking out 2 books, Magic and Showmanship by Henning Nelms and Showmanship for Magicians, I could not find anything extensively written or even mentioning guilt. Topic header just irks the hell out of me. |
|||||||||
rklew64 Inner circle 1265 Posts |
Showmanship for Magicians by Dariel Fitzee.
|
|||||||||
rklew64 Inner circle 1265 Posts |
Yes, I know - Fitzkee, sorry
|
|||||||||
Daeld New user So far, I have about 84 Posts |
Thank you for getting me back on topic! :0
Quote:
On 2013-03-31 11:40, rklew64 wrote: If the purpose was to get a discussion happening, I think that he got it. |
|||||||||
Remagicon Regular user Somewhere over the Rainbow 124 Posts |
Quote:
On 2013-04-01 04:52, Daeld wrote: I agree, if it irked you enough to draw you in, it sure did its job!
"Ars Est Celare Artem"
It is art to hide art |
|||||||||
rklew64 Inner circle 1265 Posts |
I sure did get pulled in...dang it. just like a monkey to shiny objects!
|
|||||||||
daffydoug Eternal Order Look mom! I've got 14077 Posts |
I have a penchant for creating topic titles that draw people in. I kind of like to view them like newspaper headlines.
The difficult must become easy, the easy beautiful and the beautiful magical.
|
|||||||||
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » New to magic? » » Daff To Beginners: Magicians Are Guilty Liars! (0 Likes) | ||||||||||
Go to page [Previous] 1~2 |
[ Top of Page ] |
All content & postings Copyright © 2001-2024 Steve Brooks. All Rights Reserved. This page was created in 0.03 seconds requiring 5 database queries. |
The views and comments expressed on The Magic Café are not necessarily those of The Magic Café, Steve Brooks, or Steve Brooks Magic. > Privacy Statement < |