|
|
Go to page [Previous] 1~2~3~4 | ||||||||||
silverking Inner circle 4574 Posts |
Quote:
On 2013-04-23 13:23, AMcD wrote: This place has lasted just fine since Doc first petitioned Steve for a forum such as this, now over 8 years ago. I don't believe you have a problem with the English language. Some of your posts are downright lucid and detailed such that to think you have issues with the English language is simply not rational. In fact, using your books (or pamphlets as you prefer) as an example, you have an ability to execute complex interaction in English on the most difficult topics. Bury the hatchet, and lets keep things casual rather than confrontational. ...........it's just cards and dice! |
|||||||||
AMcD Inner circle stacking for food! 3078 Posts |
Bury the hatchet?
I don't have time (and I don't feel like to do it because I'm tired of all this childishness) but looking through ancient posts/threads I could easily fill one page with all the attacks and insults I had to face here in the past. What have I done here? I'm asked to detail, clarify my point of view. I did it. This point of view is apparently wrong. It's OK with me, where the hell did I say that what I wrote was gospel? I didn't get aggressive with anyone. I didn't get irritated. I'm just asking for some explanations. I said it, you said it, I'm not a serious BJ player. I know the rules, have played it a few of times. A few years ago I knew BS by heart and I think I'm still able to keep a RC in a noisy environment. I've never been beyond HI-Lo or KO systems though. No, I'm not a pro, that's true. That's why I'm asking for someone to detail the following: Splice: "NO, THE % OF HANDS WON WHEN A BET CHANGE HAS OCCURRED IS NOT SIGNIFICANTLY DIFFERENT FROM THE GLOBAL % OF HANDS WON" Me: Can you prove that? And, again, I'm talking about a bet change WHEN THE PLAYER KNOWS THE COUNT IS FAVORABLE. Splice: "A FAVORABLE SHOE DOES NOT RESULT IN MORE HANDS WON." Me: Can you explain why? Splice: "Card counting is NOT about increasing your bet size when you expect to win more hands." Me: Why? If the count is favorable, why would you not increase your bets? Splice: "A card counter does NOT increase his bet in a favorable count because he expects to win more hands." Me: I just don't understand. When does a card counter increases his bet then? Those are legitimate questions. He can answer. Despite what he implies, I can understand very serious maths, lol, no problems. I'm not the one who started a fight. I have no hatchet to bury as I didn't enter a war. Can you find ONE post, among my 1800+ posts here, where I attack someone? ONE post where I insult or put down someone? I don't think so. You know the high esteem I have for you but, sometimes, I just don't understand the way you think. I've been a good guy for years here. I bring news, I demonstrate, I help. I just think I deserve a bit more of respect. I don't think that telling me to read a book or putting me down with no explanations is respectful. And please, don't give me the "victim syndrome" again. You say this place is lasting for 8 years, you're right. But the last time I was away for a couple of months you could read more than 2 months of news on the first page! We are probably no more than 5 serious posters now. When tommy, Cag or me are not posting, it's almost an empty cell here. Alive yes, but dying slowing if you want my point. For the zillionth time, I'm OK for having polite and decent exchanges with splice, NFS, and the 2-3 other "foes" I have here. But one, all have bought my pamphlets as you name them. Why? Why buying my material and even have polite, instructive and interesting email exchanges and then being so aggressive with me publicly? I just don't understand. Unless you mean that, despite being an idiot, I write useful stuff (which would not please me, lol). I had long exchanges in the past with some of these guys, even video sessions. I even talked with some of them! Why asking for my suggestions, why requiring information from me and then acting that way? What do you want me to do? Say "hey splice, let's cut all that crap out right now?". Why would I do that? I did nothing! I have nothing against him (or anyone else)!!! And even if I do that, how long will it last, 2 posts? I'm gonna show you I'm a cooperative chap though. OK, Nicholas, Joe, Seb, etc. let's be friends! |
|||||||||
silverking Inner circle 4574 Posts |
Arnold, let me share something with you.
People in general have very little perspective when it comes to themselves. For example......I have no idea how others in this forum see me, although I have a very good idea as to how I see myself. Perhaps I'm seen as a buffoon, or a know-it-all......or a poseur, or maybe my posts are roundly considered to be yawners........I have no idea. I've been around the "Spot" for a while though, and I consider myself to be a regular that contributes bits of value. .......but I have no idea if my vision of how I behave here is accurate or not.......but it matters not, because I don't really care. You have a very different idea of how you come across on the forum than how you actually do come across on the forum. BUT......where you're different from me is that you DO care how people see you, and how people talk to you. I'll go out on a limb Arnold, and tell you that I believe your one and only issue in this forum is that you can't take any "push back".......and I mean any push-back. .......that's it, you're no more complex than that. If you could take push back without feeling that you were being attacked, there would be absolutely no issue with any posts, or any comments made by you in response to what somebody else wrote. I won't go into detail, but NFS linked to a thread where you not only attacked him outright, but were absolutely and totally out of line while doing so. My point there is that you see yourself one way in this forum.......but your actual online persona is completely different than the one you lay claim to having. (hopefully, you'll see this paragraph as something other than push-back or an attack on you personally!) Anyway, it's all good.......do as you will........I enjoy reading your posts, your books are held in high regard, you and I have been exchanging online thoughts for years..........most importantly, your "new leaf" has you encouraging that everybody be friends Glory days indeed! |
|||||||||
AMcD Inner circle stacking for food! 3078 Posts |
You're 50% right, I do care how people talk to me. But I don't care how they see me. Really.
I would be sad though, that some people think I have a strong ego or that I want people to have a high esteem for me. Hey, I have an ego, as anyone else. But not that kind of ego. If some people see me the way you imply, well, I'm sorry. Talking about my books, some people are not gonna be pleased but I have decided to release (before the end of the year) one volume that, surely, is gonna make some... er... buzz. Would you mind to drop me an email at owner@arnoldmcdonald.org for instance? I'd like your opinion. In fact I need many opinions and I'm already discussing about it with others. But yours would have an important weight... |
|||||||||
WhiskeyPriest New user 70 Posts |
Well as fun as all that was to read... on to Jason's question!
I am truly stumped on this one and have been thinking about it a lot the past day. But trying to think outside the box here goes my best answer. How about a 6 deck continuous shuffle machine with a chunk of cards continuously left in the bottom of the discard rack? lol Jason you better give us an answer to this or it might drive me crazy:) Whiskey |
|||||||||
JasonEngland V.I.P. Las Vegas, NV 1728 Posts |
Whiskey,
There are two primary ways to beat the game using a flat bet and basic strategy. The first is loss rebates, which Don Johnson used a few years back to win several million in Atlantic City. He played the marketing departments against the casino department and basically engineered a deal for himself that meant he was playing with a very large +EV even though he was flat betting and playing BS. That's one way. But the other way is to only play in positive decks. The classic example of this is Wonging, or back-counting. You back-count until the deck goes positive and then you play. If the deck turns on you, you leave. All the getting/sitting up and down can be a grind, but if you were sufficiently bankrolled it could make good money. The days of back-counting by yourself are pretty much gone, although some opportunities still exist. A more sophisticated approach was team play, which allowed the guy doing the back-counting to walk away after a BP was called in. But it's still back counting at its core. You also have shuffle tracking. If the conditions are right, then you can identify good slugs that get recycled over and over again. You play only into the good slugs and you can flat bet and use BS to win. Tracking still requires the ability to count cards (to identify the good slugs), but once you find these slugs you don't have to ramp your bets up and down or use index deviations. But I specifically said the play wasn't a back-counting play or shuffle tracking, so what did I have in mind? It's called "card eating." Say you have a BP at 3rd base betting $3000 per hand and a small player at first base betting $5 per hand. If the count is positive, the small bettor does nothing but continues to play his single spot at $5 per spot. If the count goes negative, the small player spreads to two spots (still at $5 per hand if allowed, although some places will make you double the table minimum to play two spots). Moving to two spots only in negative shoes has the effect of "eating" or removing those low cards from the shoes and leaving the BP with a larger percentage of high cards than he would normally get. Although the BP could improve his EV by counting and using strategy deviations, there is a small +EV even with basic strategy. The technique requires deep pockets and doesn't make much money (due to the bleeding by the small bettor), so it may be more of a theoretical exercise than anything else, but the +EV is there under the right circumstances. Jason
Eternal damnation awaits anyone who questions God's unconditional love. --Bill Hicks
|
|||||||||
SmallHands New user 4 Posts |
Actually Don Johnson had a bit more help than just the loss rebates. 1. He had an entourage with him that would "eat cards" in negative situations. That means that when the count was bad for the player they would spread to multiple hands, and when the count was good they would sit out. The second thing he had going for him was the dealers were very intimidated by the action, and his truculent manner. He figured he was getting one or two bets per night in dealer errors which was enough to give him at least a break even game (or better) on its own.
|
|||||||||
JasonEngland V.I.P. Las Vegas, NV 1728 Posts |
SmallHands,
I didn't know that Johnson used card eaters as well. Nice info. Would you agree though that the vast majority of his edge came from the rebates? Jason
Eternal damnation awaits anyone who questions God's unconditional love. --Bill Hicks
|
|||||||||
splice Inner circle Canada 1246 Posts |
Actually, if the analysis I read is correct, nearly half his edge came from dealer mistakes he encouraged and created by affecting an abrasive, insulting persona. As far as him using a crew to eat a negative shoe, I thought he talked about that at the conference you organized?
http://apheat.net/2013/03/07/don-johnson......ackjack/ |
|||||||||
JasonEngland V.I.P. Las Vegas, NV 1728 Posts |
Splice,
First of all, I didn't organize the WGPC, I merely hosted it. I just showed up and introduced the day's speakers and kept the program running. All of the really difficult work of organizing and operating the conference is the result of Willie and Jo Allison's tireless efforts. I don't know if you thought I really organized it or if that was just a casual use of that term, but I can't take credit for anything other than being a glorified MC really. Secondly, he almost certainly did discuss using card eaters* at the WGPC. I was in the audience (or backstage) for his entire talk. Unfortunately Don was the keynote speaker and my day had just begun. I got to speak to him briefly before his talk and I tried to listen carefully to what he said, but I was also busy doing several other things in preparation for other presentations that would follow. What really bums me out is that I've read that page of Eliot Jacobson's that you linked to before and I still didn't remember that DJ used card eaters! I must be getting old. Leaving aside the issue of card eating for a second, I'm not sure how you balance DJ's gain from the rebates against his gain from dealer errors. The rebate gain is inherent in the system he negotiated with the casinos in order to play to begin with. Dealer errors are something that could theoretically vanish with a more attentive staff or surveillance audit. Clearly both methods won money for him, but my gut tells me the rebate is where the bulk of his profits came from - although I admit I don't have the math skills to prove this. Jason *I'm not sure if what is mentioned in this article is the same as card eating as described by Grosjean. Here, DJ is described as simply sitting out in negative shoes until the shoes went positive again. That sounds more like Wonging in and out of your own game to me, versus still playing while your "eaters" consume more cards by spreading to multiple hands. A fine point to be sure, but it might have serious implications to your bottom line. Sounds like DJ's Wonging in and out of his own shoes is much more powerful than the card eating concept that's described in Beyond Counting.
Eternal damnation awaits anyone who questions God's unconditional love. --Bill Hicks
|
|||||||||
splice Inner circle Canada 1246 Posts |
Jason, I was trying to figure out how to really evaluate the rebate and gave a figure off the top of my head just looking at the numbers. I may be off, but it's difficult to figure out by how much. I did forget to include the showup money, too. I could probably work up better numbers by comparing the game he played with standard vegas rules, but in the end it's too complicated and not much of a reason to do it.
Either way it all played together for sure and the loss rebates were the foundation of it all. For the card eating, it sounds like a combination of both concepts. The BP is wonging in and out, but he needs his entourage to eat the cards when the shoe's negative. If he didn't have his crew, he might be playing alone at the table. |
|||||||||
SmallHands New user 4 Posts |
Jason,
I would agree that the majority of his ev came from the loss rebate. It is a little difficult to analyze the precise value of the rebate when you throw in these other factors. |
|||||||||
STM70 New user 58 Posts |
One thing that many of the larger casinos in Vegas use is a computer program that in the surveillance room where the surveillance operator can input the cards that come into play and the computer will keep track of the count. That way if the suspect someone is counting, they can get a running count and know whether or not he is in fact counting.
|
|||||||||
Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
Many times they detect them because the counters are greedy.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
|||||||||
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » The Gambling Spot » » How do Casino's detect card counters? (1 Likes) | ||||||||||
Go to page [Previous] 1~2~3~4 |
[ Top of Page ] |
All content & postings Copyright © 2001-2024 Steve Brooks. All Rights Reserved. This page was created in 0.06 seconds requiring 5 database queries. |
The views and comments expressed on The Magic Café are not necessarily those of The Magic Café, Steve Brooks, or Steve Brooks Magic. > Privacy Statement < |