|
|
Go to page [Previous] 1~2 | ||||||||||
Simon (Ted) Edwards Inner circle London 1528 Posts |
Quote:
On 2013-08-15 18:34, Scott Soloff wrote: That's all great but I think Iain's point is subtler than this. I doubt 'normal' people carry around much of the above list. They are familiar with them, of course, and these things don't look like props except - you're carrying them around, which is not normal! It is, however, perfectly reasonable because you need them to demonstrate the various effects that you perform. As Iain said earlier, "its kinda your kingdom... your rules" I personally would not set out my stall in the same way, with rugs, ribbons and such, but that's just not my style. I'm sure some people would be revolted by me pulling Tesco notepads, photos and coin envelopes out of my jacket pocket. "Why is he carrying around those?!" Different styles, different kit... Of course, 'props' like classic mental epic boards and such like are very much beyond the edge for me. I can't see myself using one ever. I think that's one of the points, anyway T. |
|||||||||
Simon (Ted) Edwards Inner circle London 1528 Posts |
Thinking more about this, there could be two threads to this at least:
1. Is the effect apparently truly impromptu? i.e. all borrowed stuff, or a really invisible prop (like a SAW) 2. Does the visible kit look like a set of magic props? In terms of stage stuff - I think that's slightly different because you can't make anything seem genuinely impromptu - you always knew you were going to be on stage. The best you can do is use kit that doesn't look like magic props. T. |
|||||||||
Cervier Inner circle France 1274 Posts |
The fact the effect is (looks) or not impromptu is a good point! Of course, it seems important to consider it when you wonder whether you are going to use your own stuff or borrow it.
"Would you have a lock and some keys with you? No? I happen to have a few in my jacket..." ;-)) But the more I think about it, the more I find reasons not to bother about that. I mean, what's the most suspect object in the eyes of spectators, between a pen and a deck of cards? Yet, we use use our own deck of cards. So why be afraid of using our own pen?
"A friend is someone who know you well but loves you anyway" H. Lauwick
The Lynx Deck, http://jmmaries.free.fr/cervier/ Grapheeteez, on GooglePlay Telemos the peek envelope, on SkywardMagic Telemos en Francais sur TheMysteryStore |
|||||||||
Simon (Ted) Edwards Inner circle London 1528 Posts |
Quote:
On 2013-08-16 06:03, LCervier wrote: Indeed! The irony is that my pen is actually quite distinctive (Fisher Space Pen) but is completely innocent. People do comment on it but only to say, "Oh, is that a Space Pen?" T |
|||||||||
Dr Weevil Regular user 137 Posts |
Very interesting thread, and I think everything about our appearance, props, vocabulary etc. can have an impact on our audiences' experience. Loved seeing that picture Iain, it's instantly evocative of the type of performance you would give. An extreme example I like to use is this:
Imagine you are walking down the high street, and a man with a flowing white beard, worn, yet finely embroidered, clothes and sandalled feet accosts you. He tells you your date of birth, the name of your partner, what area of town you live in, and your exact house number. What do you feel just happened? Now imagine you are walking down the high street, and a clean-shaven man in a police uniform accosts you. He tells you your date of birth, the name of your partner, what area of town you live in, and your exact house number. What do you feel just happened? Personally, I tend towards the 'invisible props' side of things: for example, I do most b*ll*t work with my business cards, as I feel that it's perfectly natural for me to have them on me and subtly suggests that the size/shape/thickness is arbitrary. That's one of the things I really love about mentalism though: seeing different individual approaches. The way that 2 performers can make decisions that are aesthetically opposite, but both with good reason, with both being equally effective. |
|||||||||
IAIN Eternal Order england 18807 Posts |
Thanks everyone...
to go back to the Hannibal thing, even though he is using high end writing material, it is still appropriate to HIM, and therefore is still an invisible prop... if you are more visually driven, and how you perform is maybe a little more art-driven, to use a clipboard might seem unusual to some, yet an artist's pad would not...yet they would both have 'hidden opportunites' for want of a better term... I do get the idea of using mundane, everyday objects make them incidental, invisible, nothing... yet I also think that if something seems out of place, no matter what it is, then it sticks out like a sore thumb to varying degrees... would james bond write with a monte blanc, or a cheap biro? would Uncle Si from Duck Dynasty write with an old pencil maybe kept behind the ear, or a quill? actually, that's a bad example cos I could see him using both - but that's cos of his persona...he's eccentric enough to get away with either or both... Would a bizarrist use a high-end brand new leather padfolio or a more aged notebook? though I don't think it should be the main focus, attention to detail (for me) is important, it helps me BE me, to relax, and to help create what I want I want to share/get across with people...
I've asked to be banned
|
|||||||||
VernonOnCoins Inner circle NYC 1978 Posts |
I often wonder how David Lynch would perform mind reading. His slow, mild mannered, even tempered speech pattern is quite hypnotic. Sometimes I emulate this speech pattern when working. He does a thing where he brings his hand up to his head and wiggles his fingers. Ive tried this during revelations. Feels right. He also dresses pretty cool in his nineteen fifties suits.
Down the road, I will have a suit custom made for me. Edwardian in style. Earth tones. Handmade shoes. Im quite attracted to men's fashion from this era. Currently, I wear Ben Sherman suits and a pair of handmade shoes. Jewelry is important to me. Rings especially. |
|||||||||
VernonOnCoins Inner circle NYC 1978 Posts |
So yea.. old world for me. What would a man from that era use... and that's what I base my props around. Its the reason I choose to use Jean Claude Flournoy's hand colored Dodal/Noblet over some tacky modern new agey deck.
There's an air of mystery about old world craftsmanship. |
|||||||||
Cervier Inner circle France 1274 Posts |
It's been a long time since I last read Konstantin Stanislavski's "Building a Character", I feel like reading it again...
"A friend is someone who know you well but loves you anyway" H. Lauwick
The Lynx Deck, http://jmmaries.free.fr/cervier/ Grapheeteez, on GooglePlay Telemos the peek envelope, on SkywardMagic Telemos en Francais sur TheMysteryStore |
|||||||||
John Raff M Loyal user Republic of Ireland 233 Posts |
I think we can all agree that there is no "one size fits all" approach to what kind of props we use in performances. For some it might make sense for their performers character to carry around shiny golf pens and pencils with a nice looking pad and maybe some envelopes. For others that might be ridiculous. They may carry some old looking tarot cards, pendulums, etc. We all have our own style and we carry around what suits us.
For me and my performing character the aforementioned props simply wouldn't work. Apart from a deck of cards the only props I carry are invisible to the audience if you get my drift. It suits me to mainly borrowed items when I can. For both my close up and parlour performers I prefer a minimalistic approach but again this is just me. Again, Iain this is a really interesting thread and a lot of people (including myself) are really enjoying it. Best, john. |
|||||||||
C.J. Inner circle There's a lotta rambling in my 2366 Posts |
Quote:
On 2013-08-16 04:55, Simon (Ted) Edwards wrote: Beautiful point. Can't say I've ever thought of that before, but very true. I read Iain's words as driving strongly at the nature of symbolism, but in a way that is actually dramatically correct and not the cheap excuse for symbolism we see in most entertainment today. What symbols we adopt can convey massive meaning to our audiences subconsciously, and stir up involvement, emotional investment and intrigue (which he actually said earlier, though in different words). Thus... cards tend to be shunned by some performers because even if they are not "shown to be perfectly normal" *cough*, they are still, to most people a symbol of the magician and the gambler. The notepad and pencil strike a resonance in people's recognition as "normal", and therefore present you as average joe. But is this necessarily better than Iain's (and others') set-up such as described and pictured above? I'd say that the layout shown in Iain's picture above does far more to generate intrigue and emotional investment than plain-pad-and-pencil. The Hannibal pad/pen analogy above gave me much food for thought. You don't have to have a back-story or any fancy-shmancy reason for having a good quality pen and pad - let them strike a subconscious chord in your participant's mind. They will decide that you are someone of status, someone with strength, and someone worth paying attention too. After all, the audience is very good at intuition and cold-reading too... they just don't realise they are doing it! I'm going to take some more time to consider this "nice pen" concept. There's something great there, but I can't quite see how to go about digging for it...
Connor Jacobs - The Thought Sculptor
Mundus vult decipi, ergo decipiatur Be fondly remembered. |
|||||||||
IAIN Eternal Order england 18807 Posts |
Everything is symbolism, everything is suggestion, one way or the other...
I remember seeing a magician dressed pretty scruffily, heavy stubble, wooly hat, lots of rings, tattoos and holes in his t-shirt...and then he pulled out a business card case with gold corners...and those he was performing for kinda stopped and looked intently at the case...and the guy almost stuttered, he certainly lost his flow - in that moment attention to an object that sat out of place to what he was doing and who he was (from the audience's eyes at least)... "what's with the posh wallet?" it was the wrong sort of attention... if you met donald trump, apart from trying not to stare at his candyfloss hair, I bet if he pulled out a very tatty, falling apart wallet - he'd have a good reason for having it "yeah, this was my grandfather's wallet, I keep it with me for good luck, still got the first dollar I ever earned in it"...or "had it for years, got sentimental value..can't retire it...maybe I should put it in a glass case?". something! but then again, if you met him, and he pulled out an elegant chesnut brown leather wallet, with gold leaf, intricate stitching and tonic lining you'd (at best) think "hey...nice wallet...does he carry cash?", and you'd maybe compliment him on it...but it would seem natural and logical for him to have it.. just like if you bought him a pen as a present, and it was a standard Bic pen, he'd laugh or think "why the hell is he giving me this?!" so its a strange line/train of thought to get into...and as I said before, completely get WHY people use everyday objects...its all part of some strange character driven equation for me... a friend of mine is going through a magic transition at the moment, he even said "i will not use anything other than red backed playing cards...i have a red motif running through everything I use..." I guess its a little like guitars, everyone has their own personal favourite, tone, treble, warmth and clarity...its speaking on your behalf, representing what you feel and what you are sharing... I am brand neutral with guitars (been playing for 28 years or so) - and my favourite guitar only cost me £80 on ebay, but it has a very nice low action without buzzing, and has such a great warmth to it... anyway - thanks for all the differing thoughts...been fun! maybe now isn't the time for me to say that my nice pen is also engraved..
I've asked to be banned
|
|||||||||
IAIN Eternal Order england 18807 Posts |
Here you go, this is an alternative pendulum I made for a very particular "thing"...certainly not normal, but within the context of the 3 presentations, it makes perfect sense...and is definitely prop-like, but at the same time - I can't think of a more suitable pendulum for the context its used in...(along with a very nice paperback of Alice in Wonderland from the late 40s in faux leather with gold leaf)...
Click here to view attached image.
I've asked to be banned
|
|||||||||
C.J. Inner circle There's a lotta rambling in my 2366 Posts |
Quote:
On 2013-08-17 20:12, IAIN wrote: If I read your post correctly, then I don't think the following statement disagrees with your position, but I wanted to highlight the point: Such a radical juxtaposition doesn't necessarily have to bring the wrong attention. Sometimes it can be captivating. Watching Dan Sperry (dressed in radical gothic steampunk and facial piercings) perform beautiful pure and flourishing dove productions was one of the highlights of my year so far. The conflicting symbolism of the neo-gothic anti-conjuror against the natural beauty and historic magnificence of dove magic was the source of good attention.
Connor Jacobs - The Thought Sculptor
Mundus vult decipi, ergo decipiatur Be fondly remembered. |
|||||||||
reese Inner circle of Hell 1332 Posts |
Ian, I'm wondering if your example of the scruffy mentalist in jeans pulling out an elegant business card wallet has more to do with business card wallets themselves looking unusual. I myself have never seen regular folk use them. Regular wallets holding business cards yes, but the little cases..no. Of course it might be different on your side of the pond.
|
|||||||||
DWRackley Inner circle Chattanooga, TN 1909 Posts |
I think Iain’s point in referring to Trump is that he WOULD have a story to explain any juxtaposition. I love browsing through antique shops and thrift stores, and frequently find keys, watches, boxes and whatnot that can be adapted to the work. Old things tend to present a character of their own that often suggests the story for you. (LOVE the watch/key pendulum!)
I do like “fancy”, but not necessarily gimmicked and certainly not un-examinable. Note: I don’t offer anything for examination, but handling it normally or allowing a spectator to hold something is part of making it not-a-prop. (And I do use one of those little leather card wallets ) For example (in the right venue), I have small crystal place card holders. Completely normal, you can find them at Marshall’s, but on white tablecloth they bump things up just a notch. Part of my character is just a bit portentous, erudite, and (I’ve been told) “professorial”. Good! That means my white boards are not out of line, nor is the brandy snifter holding the keys. Bank Night becomes beautiful with embossed “money gift” envelopes that they can keep. (Dollar Tree – pack of five!) (As an aside, when the church holds a “work-day” and asks people to come wearing “comfortable jeans”, it always amuses me just a little that I don’t own any. Haven’t since high school. That’s not character; that’s me. Been told I should wear sweaters with elbow patches! ) When I’m just out and around, a small pad of card stock is normally in my jacket pocket (discovered this item at a home-schooling “curriculum fair”), 2 1/2 x 3, same weight as index cards, unlined, rubber bonded. Looks normal enough, can be used for b*ll*t work or firm enough for NW. A plain wooden pencil to “match” the NW. And my pen is always a Paper Mate PhD, the trickiest prop there is. Hefty but clean, and writes in pencil and red or black ink. And I’m really enjoying this thread!
...what if I could read your mind?
Chattanooga's Premier Mentalist Donatelli and Company at ChattanoogaPerformers.com also on FaceBook |
|||||||||
IAIN Eternal Order england 18807 Posts |
My rosewood pen and pencil set are identical in look and weight...they are also engraved in a black fancy font, they both have three words of the same length and look...but...
well...
I've asked to be banned
|
|||||||||
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Penny for your thoughts » » Your style.... (0 Likes) | ||||||||||
Go to page [Previous] 1~2 |
[ Top of Page ] |
All content & postings Copyright © 2001-2024 Steve Brooks. All Rights Reserved. This page was created in 0.07 seconds requiring 5 database queries. |
The views and comments expressed on The Magic Café are not necessarily those of The Magic Café, Steve Brooks, or Steve Brooks Magic. > Privacy Statement < |