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Tanay Regular user 162 Posts |
Hi guys,
I've always been fond of Tommy Wonder's Ambitious Card routine ending with the card to ring box. It fooled me quite badly when I first watched it when starting magic! But, I was wondering, at the end of the routine he has the ring box in one hand, and in the other hand he has the deck. He only puts the deck down until the last moment. Obviously there is a reason for this (better cover). But, would it be better if the deck was on the table at the end when drawing attention to the ringbox and picking it up? (with the card held out in palm) The deck gives cover for the folded card, but does holding the deck make the ending a bit more suspicious THAN if it was on the table (and card was held out)? Or doesn't it matter? (It probably doesn't, and I'm probably wrong, since Tommy Wonder must have thought about this tiny detail a LOT!) I've been thinking about this a bit, I think holding out the card with the deck on the table might be better for clarity of effect, but not too sure. I can (and have) performed both ways for audiences but it is impossible to gauge which one is better. Thanks!
Tanay
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tomsk192 Inner circle 3894 Posts |
That's a very interesting point. But really, if you know what's coming, it seems to be an important question, whereas if you don't know what's coming, I think it's very minor. Very few magicians can do the work, prior to the final moment, as swiftly and invisibly as Tommy Wonder did it. Once you know what's going on, your point is a good one.
What I would say, is that the deck in this instance works in the same way as a wand in the Cups & Balls. Hey, you're already holding something, so you can't be holding out, right? Nice thread. |
Jiceh Special user France 742 Posts |
I don't think that holding the deck is suspicious.
I think that TW's method and choregraphy are perfect. He shows the deck in the LH and transfers it in the LH. While having the deck in the LH, he point the box with the empty LH. Here, we can see the depart point (deck) and the final point (box) : it's easy to understand what has occured (the card has travelled from the deck to the box). It's a very clear picture of the effect. Then, while he relaxes his body a little, he takes the box with the empty LH (he puts the deck on the table at the same time). He shows the box (emphasize) the he can do the sleight and shows the card into the box. While showing the card, he puts the box in the pocket (at the exact same moment). PERFECT! |
aqualung New user 12 Posts |
My advice would be to follow Tommy Wonder's example. This is exactly the kind of thing he would have given serious thought to. For a related example of motivated choreography, see page 257 of The Books of Wonder, volume 1.
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puggo Inner circle 2022 Posts |
Quote:
On 2013-08-28 15:21, tomsk192 wrote: I completely agree with this, plus don't feel (or look) 'guilty'. Charlie |
Tanay Regular user 162 Posts |
Thanks guys! I agree definitely that holding the deck is NOT suspicious. Was just wondering if there was an alternative solution (which may/may not be better).
tomsk192, good point. Maybe for repeated viewings, not holding the deck may be better in terms of reducing suspicion (assuming the palm is natural). Jiceh, I hadn't thought about the image in the spectator's mind. Thanks for pointing it out!
Tanay
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baobow Special user 510 Posts |
If you look at the 2nd last phase of Tommy's routine where the card returns to the top while on the table, Tommy has presented that phase to feel like the closer of the effect, everything until him placing emphasis to the ring box is an offbeat moment. Ppl think the trick is done when all the dirty work is being executed and only realises there is more when the dirty work is done. Like Jiceh mentioned, the palmed card originally in the LH is transferred to the RH without suspicion because he is merely transferring the deck from one hand to another while subtlety convincing the spectator that both his hands are empty otherwise.
By placing the deck on the table at the same time as all eyes are on the box in his LH is a perfect almost in-transit action. The spectator could perceive this in two ways 1) As it’s an in transit action, it’s logical to free your hand to dump the card out so it eliminates suspicion 2) Because all eyes are on the box, they may not even notice the cards being placed on the table, so when backtracking, they may feel that the deck was on the table long before the box was even picked up Side Note:- Tommy's timing to mercury fold the card while picking up the cards off the table is fantastic in transit action to execute the move He has added very subtle layers to each aspect of the routine which are great. Little things like:- 1) Allowing the card to move 'freely' in the card box 2) Ensuring he has a box which closes immediately after the dump 3) Subtlely showing both hands empty 4) Little pauses in his dialogue to re-enforce what's happening |
Kex Special user Arlington, Texas 577 Posts |
Quote:
On 2013-08-28 14:57, Tanay wrote: If it fooled you so much when you knew little of magic then how would it work for the lay person that knows as much as you did at the time or less? No need to worry about the deck in the hand. |
Jiceh Special user France 742 Posts |
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On 2013-08-28 23:45, baobow wrote: I agree 100% we can add : 5)the lid of the box act like pliers : This gives a strong picture of a card coming from the box |
leomagnus Veteran user 303 Posts |
I perform the Tommy Wonder card to ring box as the finale to my close-up set, and have been doing so for over a year now. This is what I have noticed. The fact of the matter is that after you make the fold, and are holding the folded card and the deck in your right hand, and you focus attention on the box with your(clearly empty) left hand, the majority of the audience will guess what's about to happen and start flipping out.(nononono immpossible!) Their eyes are glued to the ringbox at this point. The small minority that haven't guessed what's to come are looking where everyone else is looking to see what's going on. Then you pick up and open the ringbox with your left hand. Then you table the deck. In my opinion it is EXTREMELY important to lay off tabling the deck until after you open the box, because before you open the box, the audience is trying to catch you sneaking it in, and suspicion will naturally be on your hands. As stated above, the deck acts as a magic wand, protecting the folded card in your right hand. But as soon as you open the box and the audience sees the folded x-card inside the trick is over to them. They feel you've already done all the dirty work and beaten them. The suspicion is gone, and you have a huge wave of relaxation. Now you can table the deck and no one will give the deck or your right hand a seconds thought. Now you can do the shuttle pass. Hope this helps.
Cheers. -Leo |
baobow Special user 510 Posts |
The lead heavy arm that doesn't swing is usually the big giveaway that something is not right
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Jiceh Special user France 742 Posts |
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On 2013-08-29 20:58, leomagnus wrote: Leo, very good point I don't remember if TW shows the card inside the box before tabling the deck. |
Moncle New user United Kingdom 41 Posts |
Hi all,
Glad a post like this has come up, I have performing this for over seven and it is the strongest thing I do and always without fail gets a tremendous reaction. Had a whole table leap oout of the seats once. Forgive me if this has already been said, but I think the strength in the deception are two layers of attention control, 1. what you are saying and what you are doing with your eyes, as I say " here in this little box" I drop my head to look at the box and pause, this sets off some reaction, in that moment I reach for the ring box at the same time as putting the deck down,2. one action negates the other. Then open the boxe give it a little wiggle and tip the card out. I have just made the pom poms and bag for the two cup routine, love to perform his stuff, just need to start creating myself. Mike. |
Moncle New user United Kingdom 41 Posts |
Sorry about my spelling.
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