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Ray Tupper. Special user NG16. 749 Posts |
Quote:
On 2013-09-02 18:22, balducci wrote: That's my point Balducci.....The time period for the 7.7" rise and the corresponding period for the supposed 20' rise. Also, the finite amount of land based ice melt, versus the ocean based ice formations shrinking should more than compensate. Note, this is just my thinking. That's why I wanted some firm data of projections, not the usual guesswork, as shown by the article posted above, they even ballsed-up the estimate as recently as 1993 to 2009. That's one of the reasons I'm still undecided, I know it's happening (to a degree), just not at the alarming rate I'm being tried to be led to believe.
What do we want?
A cure for tourettes! When do we want it? C*nt! |
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mastermindreader 1949 - 2017 Seattle, WA 12586 Posts |
http://www.skepticalscience.com/global-w......PIK.html
This is an excellent site that also addresses the common myths about climate change. |
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tommy Eternal Order Devil's Island 16544 Posts |
Thank you. Yes I obviouly did miss your post several pages back. I am sorry about that. All I did was Google Heartlands to try and see what you were talking about. A fellow defending Heartlands was the first thing that came up, which is what you were looking for, I thought, and so I showed it you. I will look into it now. Or as soon as I can, since I am busy at the moment saving the planet from world war III.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
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MaxfieldsMagic Inner circle Instead of practicing, I made 3009 Posts |
Well, it's clear that the fundamental disagreements within this thread are reflective of the disagreements within the populace at large, which is why we'll never effectively attempt to combat accelerated global warming until it's too late. Oh well, "I won't be here," as they say. Future generations will love us.
Now appearing nightly in my basement.
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rockwall Special user 762 Posts |
Quote:
On 2013-09-02 17:45, mastermindreader wrote: Well, Bob, I actually think I am more willing to listen to the scientists and that you are more willing to listen to the propagandists. You see, the real scientists know that the science ISN’T settled. (As you and Magnus admit, it is constantly evolving and changing as new information is found, and yet you will both still proclaim that it’s SETTLED!) Real scientists know that there isn’t 98% agreement among all scientists on AGW. They know that number is phony and was created by the propagandists. Real scientists will admit that the climate models have not even been close in their predictions of global warming over the last 20 years. Real scientists know that most of the propagandist claims made in ‘documentaries’, in news stories, by ‘ahem’ presidents, are just that, propaganda, with little bearing on the actual science and who’s real purpose is to scare the populace into approving outrageously expensive governmental policy that will have little to no effect on AGW. You see, the climate debate has become so polarized and so much money is being spent on ‘studying’ AGW, that it has become politically AND professionally dangerous for any scientist to raise any questions about it. Much like any black man who dares to join the Republican party will be vilified for being an Uncle Tom and worse, any scientist who questions AGW will also face persecution. Take for example yourself. You will tell us that you are a critical thinker who values all viewpoints. And yet, you won’t even blink as you proclaim that THIS black senator doesn’t deserve to speak at the anniversary of MLK’s speech because you don’t think that he conforms enough to MLK’s views, or that THIS former senator doesn’t deserve to be listened to, despite how many American’s she gives voice to, because you don’t think her views have any merit, or that THIS blogger’s site doesn’t have any part in the AGW debate, despite how many awards for best science blog it may have won and despite the input from other distinguished researchers, because you don’t find his credentials important enough to allow him to be heard. This is the politics that make up the AGW debate. This is why, despite you and Magnus wanting to believe that there is no pressure on scientists to toe the line that the exact opposite is actually true. This is why scientists, such as Judith Curry, will be vilified and ostracized for daring to question any of the proclamations of the AGW faithful. Read her excellent Blog entry at Climate Etc., found here: http://judithcurry.com/2013/08/20/scientists-and-motivated-reasoning/, about the difficulties and dilemmas scientists face in reporting any results that may break from the normal groupthink. This is why I’m willing to listen to what the scientists have to say. But I’ll do it with a skeptical eye because I understand the politics behind the message and I recognize the errors that have been made. I understand the propagandists desire to use this message as a tool to pass their own agendas. This is why I’m willing to listen to other viewpoints, (and be wary of THEIR agenda also). I won’t simply discount someone because I don’t like their politics or because I don’t find them worthy of debate. |
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Ray Tupper. Special user NG16. 749 Posts |
Quote:
On 2013-09-03 05:19, mastermindreader wrote: Thanks Bob. It does seem that the original 20' predictions were rather alarmist, to say the least, but were based on pre and post industrial revolution findings. So, is a naturally occurring event being magnified to an apocalyptic outcome by AGW?...Not for the next couple of hundred years according to that site. By which time anything could happen as science (hopefully) evolves.
What do we want?
A cure for tourettes! When do we want it? C*nt! |
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mastermindreader 1949 - 2017 Seattle, WA 12586 Posts |
Rockwall-
So what are your feelings about Heartland? Do you believe them to be an unbiased source of objective research and information? And you are aware, aren't you, that the 97% figure refers to the world's CLIMATE scientists? |
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Slide Special user 533 Posts |
This discussion seems so last century to me.
I guess some of you live in areas where you can afford to have these types of discussions. Here in the northeast, it is a little different. I'm not a scientist, don't have any ability to understand the data and determine who is right and who is wrong. All I can do is go on what I've personally experienced in the last few years. I can say I have easily spent over $20k of my own money in the last 2 years directly on climate change recovery or preparedness. I've lived in the Northeast most of my 59 years and in my particular area for over 20 years. In all that time, I've never had to spend money on the things that I must spend money on now. This summer I had 6 huge trees removed from my property that were close to the house. I spent money on generators. I spent money hauling damaged furniture, rugs, I spent money replacing floors. Some was related to Sandy. Some the hurricane we had the year before and the freak snowstorm two years ago October. In nearly 60 years, I've never seen weather the way it is now. My intuition says man's to blame, but really, it doesn't matter who is to blame. I'm still spending tens of thousands of dollars now that I have never spent before. You all can debate if there is climate change all day long and if man is responsible or not. For some of us, that horse left the barn a LONG TIME ago. |
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tommy Eternal Order Devil's Island 16544 Posts |
With regard the Heartlands billboards is it true that, these rogues and villains on them, made public statements about how man-made global warming is a crisis and how mankind must take immediate and drastic actions to stop it and if so what did these rogues and villains say?
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
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R.S. Regular user CT one day I'll have 184 Posts |
Quote:
On 2013-09-03 08:13, rockwall wrote: You mean, like the Koch Brothers? Ron
"It is error only, and not truth, that shrinks from inquiry." Thomas Paine
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mastermindreader 1949 - 2017 Seattle, WA 12586 Posts |
Quote:
On 2013-09-03 13:40, tommy wrote: According to Heartland's fiction, all they said was, "I still believe in global warming, don't you?" The purpose of the campaign was simply to associate murderers, tyrants and terrorists with AGW, not to accurately quote anyone. |
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Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27297 Posts |
Please it's like a group of children running in different directions yelling "wolf" and when asked they insist that there must be a wolf somewhere so they are right to be yelling.
Okay- so what? Really. Do you have anything to offer to a civil dialog beyond "you say wolf"? What do you have? Do you like math and want to show off how you can compute the likelihood of there being a wolf in within a radius of the nearest zoo? Well that's so very clever. Again so what? AGW, millennium, fourth encounters fifth encounters of the second visitation... fine. Oh you are so very clever and so right. So good to be you. Okay now what? What do you have to add beyond "prepare ye the coming of the event"? To the wasteful - no matter if they believe in the coming ice age or no, I suggest becoming more aware of our closed environment and how we need potable water etc. Beyond that - well I've already addressed the matter in the large and immediate. Your turn. Listening. I mostly listen to what folks say they want to do or are doing. Unless I have something I expect them to find useful to say. Listening... Listening for what drives what they say they believe.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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MaxfieldsMagic Inner circle Instead of practicing, I made 3009 Posts |
Are you listening, Jonathan? It sounds like you have your mind made up. If you can't see any proof of AGW out there, it's because you don't want to. But don't worry, you're not alone. And therein lies the problem. Without agreement and unity there will be no meaningful action. It's like we're rowing in two directions in the same boat, only to spin in circles. Time will tell which side is right, but then time is also our enemy in this case.
Now appearing nightly in my basement.
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