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Pakar Ilusi Inner circle 5777 Posts |
You miss my point by picking on just the faster than light thing...
The faster than light travel was just an example. Impossible? I won't go into wormholes and warp drives and such as it is just an example... Just because we can now only dream of these, doesn't mean an older civilisation has not constructed and used them. I'm really just trying to show that we are putting limitations on an advanced race of aliens by using our standards. It could just as well be robots or whatever non carbon based entities sent to survey the universe by these alien civilisations. A higher form of our Voyager spacecraft, if you will... The mission is much like our unmanned drones, to see and not be seen unless one has an accident. (The fish metaphor is a metaphor, that's all.) Now, being robots and possibly even self replicating robots, time and distance would not really be an issue for their travels. Or it could be some technology we have not even thought of that they're using that is still within the natural laws of the universe. It's like trying to explain space shuttles to a caveman, it doesn't break any physical laws as we have constructed space shuttles but the caveman would not understand it. The thing is this, I believe they have and still do visit us, incognito. I have as much or dare I say, more 'proof' for this argument than religion has for their gods and demons, heaven and hell. If bright intellectual people can believe those, I can believe this. And... Since I say they're unseen to us due to their technological advancement, I can't show them to you.
"Dreams aren't a matter of Chance but a matter of Choice." -DC-
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21245 Posts |
Do yo really want a more advanced civilization finding us?
I mean why don't you check with any native population about how they feel about being discovered and get back to me? Let me know how it worked out for the Incas or the Apache or for the Aborigines. Fact is the history of discovered places is not really great. Be careful what you wish for.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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R.S. Regular user CT one day I'll have 188 Posts |
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On 2013-09-01 05:14, Pakar Ilusi wrote: Hi Pakar, The credibility of someone else's beliefs in a particular subject should not be a factor in forming a belief in an unrelated subject. Anyway, I am curious to know why you believe we are being visited incognito. Ron :)
"It is error only, and not truth, that shrinks from inquiry." Thomas Paine
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21245 Posts |
I would be curious as to how.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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mastermindreader 1949 - 2017 Seattle, WA 12586 Posts |
You normally can't see them because they look just like us. But, if you know what to look for you can identify them. (Their pinky fingers are straight and don't bend.)
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R.S. Regular user CT one day I'll have 188 Posts |
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On 2013-09-01 10:20, Dannydoyle wrote: That's a good point, Danny. If there are advanced aliens, we shouldn't assume benevolence on their part. From their perspective we may be "in the way" in their search for planetary resources. Or we may be threatening due to our ability to harness atomic power. Or we may be insignificant. Or we may be food. Who knows. The Twilight episode "To Serve Man" comes to mind. Ron
"It is error only, and not truth, that shrinks from inquiry." Thomas Paine
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MobilityBundle Regular user Las Vegas/Boston 120 Posts |
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On 2013-09-01 05:14, Pakar Ilusi wrote: I think I get your point. If I understand it right, your point is: the (putative) limitations that we currently experience about the universe may not really be true limitations at all. Eventually, we may overcome them. And similarly, an advanced alien race may have already overcome them, just as we might one day. Moreover, an alien race may look nothing like us. So our limitations (life span, radiation sensitivity, etc.) may not be limitations for them. To be sure, that's a valid point in a lot of ways. I'll call those limitations "engineering limitations." For example, back in the '80s, we couldn't build an iPod. Because there was an engineering limitation: we didn't have the technology to store that much music on a small enough device that could fit in one's pocket. But obviously, technology progressed from at least two directions: first, the mp3 format was invented and allowed us to encode music in a way that required relatively little space; and second, advances in hard drives increased their capacity, reduced their power requirements, etc. Presto, we get an iPod 20 years later. But if you asked someone in the '80s, nobody would say an iPod is IMPOSSIBLE. Maybe they'd say it's impractical. There might even be wildly varying estimates about how far off the technology was. (100 years? 10 years?) On the other hand, other limitations are indeed "true" limitations, not engineering limitations. The local light speed limit is one. The age of the universe (or the age of stars/galaxies) is another -- that puts a limit on how old even the oldest ancient civilization might be. The uncertainty principle is another -- there's provably no engineering solution to that. And perhaps the biggest true limitation is the collection of all empirical data we have observed to date. So, for example, none of this rules out warp drives. That's a theoretical possibility, but (for us) there are engineering limitations that we currently don't know how to solve. But we know for example, that it takes "exotic matter" to create warp drives (or worm holes, for that matter). Of course, we've never observed any of this exotic matter anywhere in the universe, but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist. However, from our observations of the universe, we can put a limit on the amount of exotic matter that exists. It's... low. Similarly, although we don't know how to build a warp drive or worm hole, we know that, necessarily any transport mechanism that distorts spacetime as a means of travel produces huge blasts of energetic radiation at the destination, on a magnitude that's at best, impossible to hide, and more likely just outright destructive. Insofar as we haven't seen such local blasts, we can rule out visitation by aliens using warp drive or such technology. And that's kind of my point. Speaking a little metaphorically or Rumsfeldian, there are (1) the aspects of the universe we know, (2) the aspects of the universe we know we don't know, and (3) the aspects of the universe we don't know that we don't know. My point is that the breadth of (1) constrains the breadth of (2), and both constrain the breadth of (3). |
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Slide Special user 533 Posts |
"Why don't/do you believe in life outside of Earth? Please elaborate as much as possible. don't be offended but to me anyone who believes we're alone is arrogant."
Why do we have to decide at all. Why not wait until there is evidence? Otherwise you are just spinning your wheels. I've never understood why people waste so much time worrying about things that can't be proved and may never be proved. Aliens, or no aliens, it may be a fun intellectual exercise for some but it's a complete waste of time. |
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Mehtas Inner circle England, UK 1649 Posts |
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Yes, but a single evidence can spoild a good argument |
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Pakar Ilusi Inner circle 5777 Posts |
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On 2013-09-01 10:20, Dannydoyle wrote: My belief isn't that I WANT them to find us. I believe they've long ago found us. If not helped us along.
"Dreams aren't a matter of Chance but a matter of Choice." -DC-
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Pakar Ilusi Inner circle 5777 Posts |
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On 2013-09-01 10:20, R.S. wrote: True, but it's always fun to throw in that perspective. Why incogito? Because I believe they're the ones responsible for all the "gods and demons" from our past civilisations.
"Dreams aren't a matter of Chance but a matter of Choice." -DC-
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Pakar Ilusi Inner circle 5777 Posts |
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On 2013-09-01 10:51, MobilityBundle wrote: I actually agree with most of that. It still doesn't rule out invisible aliens.
"Dreams aren't a matter of Chance but a matter of Choice." -DC-
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Pakar Ilusi Inner circle 5777 Posts |
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On 2013-09-01 12:06, Slide wrote: Cause it answers the gods and demons question for some. And it is fun, intellectually.
"Dreams aren't a matter of Chance but a matter of Choice." -DC-
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Pakar Ilusi Inner circle 5777 Posts |
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On 2013-09-01 10:30, mastermindreader wrote: Bob, shhh...
"Dreams aren't a matter of Chance but a matter of Choice." -DC-
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Russell Davidson Inner circle Hampshire, England 1108 Posts |
There's little doubt that life exists elsewhere in another universe. But the general assumption that it must be more advanced than ours is completely unfounded.
Believe what you like of course but to actually live your life based on belief alone is plain crazy. Can't we just enjoy a beautiful garden without the need to believe there's fairies at the end of it? |
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Pakar Ilusi Inner circle 5777 Posts |
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On 2013-09-02 08:36, Russell Davidson wrote: No fairies for me, thank you. Just a good gardener.
"Dreams aren't a matter of Chance but a matter of Choice." -DC-
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