|
|
BeThePlunk Special user West of Boston, East of Eden 887 Posts |
Has anyone tried making their copper cups look antique by adding verdigris? There are methods of doing it using common household chemicals, so you don't have to wait a few decades. It seems like it would produce a cool look. Yes, a workable idea? No, it wrecks the cups? Experience? Thoughts?
David |
TKF New user 62 Posts |
I have seen a lot of discussion from the past pertaining to adding a patina to copper cups (usually just dulling or "aging" it softly)... I do not recall ever seeing someone trying to take it right to the acidic green state...
With the right cup, this might make for some very (postively) interesting results! IMO: It will work, but depending on who you are... Whether or not the "cups are wrecked", is personal preference. (I don't think I would ever do this to my Sherwoods...) |
BeThePlunk Special user West of Boston, East of Eden 887 Posts |
I wonder about issues like handling. Does the color stay intact? Does it smudge? Does oil from the hands create blotches? I'm going to do an experiment on some 1" copper pipe caps I want to use for 3 shell game. If that experiment works, I might just work on my Penguins.
|
Donnie Buckley V.I.P. Cleveland, Ohio 1123 Posts |
While a patina is a chemical reaction, it is still on the surface of the metal. If you scratch it, or chip it, you will expose the bare metal underneath. To fully protect a patina, it needs a protective coating - a clear coat - to be applied over it.
Verdi green is a beautiful color though and definitely worth your efforts. Also, you are not going to wreck the metal. Since it is just on the surface, it can always be polished off with polishing wheels and polishing compounds. |
Tree Loyal user Wiggle Wiggle 295 Posts |
You don't need any strange chemicals to cause the green patina to appear.
In my jewelry/lapidary shop work with copper, I use ammonia to create the aged green patina. You need to make sure your copper is very clean and free of all dirt and oils or the copper won't get that aged look correctly, unless you want fingerprints all over the copper. Soak a cloth in a some ammonia, place it in a plastic bag, then set your copper inside of the plastic bag, wrapped in the cloth, seal it up and wait, in a few hours it will acquires the green aged appearance you desire, carefully remove the copper and let it dry, it's done. another way is to suspend your copper over a bowl of ammonia, make sure your work area is well ventilated, ammonia is nasty. the fumes will cause the green patina. to quicken up the process a little bit, soak your copper in salt water, let dry and then do the ammonia process. |
BeThePlunk Special user West of Boston, East of Eden 887 Posts |
Sounds great. Right now I'm doing a test run using a vinegar and salt method I located on the web. I like the sound of your method better. It sound so quick and simple.
|
Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27297 Posts |
Quote:
On May 3, 2014, Tree wrote:... That's the key.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
|
Tree Loyal user Wiggle Wiggle 295 Posts |
Vinegar and salt will not create a green patina, it's a cheap diy pickle solution to clean copper and other metals.
acidic solutions clean metals. |
TKF New user 62 Posts |
I can only speak to my experience with adding patina to copper & nickel in a non-cup setting (art electroformed copper), but I can confirm Mr. Buckleys information -
The patina is 'on the surface', and is always changing slightly based on the environment it is exposed to... Unless you 'seal' the desired patina in a clear coat finish. However, this is indeed all surface treatment - If you find at some point in the process something goes awry, you can always reset and strip the metal back to an unfinished state and start anew... I have seen a 100 hours trying to get a single patina right on an item, but once it was proper, it was sealed and sold for a couple grand... So it can be worth the trouble. |
Donnie Buckley V.I.P. Cleveland, Ohio 1123 Posts |
Quote:
On May 4, 2014, TKF wrote: Please, call me Donnie. My friends call me Donnie. Quote:
On May 4, 2014, TKF wrote: Perfection is always worth the time. As a child I spent many hours in my grandfather's workshop. He used to have a sign in his workshop that said, "Anything worth doing is worth doing right." (It was right next to the sign that said, "Behind every successful man is a woman... Telling him he is wrong.") Funny how you never forget SOME things. |
BeThePlunk Special user West of Boston, East of Eden 887 Posts |
Quote:
On May 3, 2014, Tree wrote: Thanks, Tree - Right now the vinegar and salt experiment is putting the right color on the copper, but the surface is a weird gritty, oily mess that leaves residue on my fingers. I'll be trying the ammonia suggestion next. David |
BCS Inner circle 1083 Posts |
David... If you could share some photos of your experiment that would be cool.
Bruce |
Tree Loyal user Wiggle Wiggle 295 Posts |
What's happening is your item is being cleaned, that's not patina.
What you see is copper being removed etched away and made into a solution, something like copper sulfate. Similar to what we use in electroforming. I've been doing this for 40+yrs I know what I'm talking about here. Your solution turns green then will turn blue eventually if the item is left in to long. The evidence is you saying "gritty oily" if you touched it with your bare skin, it's going to ETCH now, and stain the item you think you are putting on a patina. I seriously hope you used gloves. Vinegar is an acid and eats/etches copper, the salt acts as a electric current. If you leave your item in the vinegar bath you will etch it badly and ruin it's smooth appearance. You may already have hurt the smooth apperence from what you say "gritty". This is why I constantly tell people the internet is a dangerous place, so much incorrect and mis information passed around by people who don't understand chemistry etc. another thing is USE DISTILLED WATER to clean your item as soon as you pull it out of the vinegar bath. DO NOT TAP WATER!!! DO NOT HANDLE IT WITH YOUR BARE HANDS!!! Tap water will create permanent stains from the minerals in the water. Your body oils will create etching patterns. These stains can't be removed easily. This is why jewelry cost so much $$$. Myself I recommend stopping what you are doing asap before you ruin what you have in that vinegar now! Read how to clean copper coins if you don't believe me, there's complete threads here on the Café about this subject. vinegar and salt is the cheapest easiest way to do it. I already posted a cheap easy way to achieve a beautiful patina with a Salt soak and ammonia. good luck. |
BeThePlunk Special user West of Boston, East of Eden 887 Posts |
Tree, that's awesome information. All is not lost. My experiment is on a piece of copper pipe -- that's all. I spritzed it with the vinegar-salt solution, and it's been sitting outside for two days. No way am I going to even consider treating my cups until I see perfect results on a cheap test item.
My next try will be with another piece of pipe following your instructions in the earlier post. I just haven't been to the store to buy ammonia yet. Your expert advice is way cool, and I can't wait to try it. BCS - I'll keep all of my experiments and post any photos I think would satisfy the curiosity of Café members. Always a project.... David |
BeThePlunk Special user West of Boston, East of Eden 887 Posts |
Here's the up-date. I found some good cups for short money and started experimenting. I had my best luck with an amonia/ baking soda/ salt spray exposed to amonia fumes for an extended time. I coated the result with three layers of clear Krylon Matte Finish. It's a crap shoot, but I'm pretty happy with the result. They look like something unearthed from the back of Merlin's cave, and I'd like to create a murky, long-ago story routine for them.
I took two shots in different lighting -- bright sun and dim interior. http://s984.photobucket.com/user/bethepl......jpg.html http://s984.photobucket.com/user/bethepl......jpg.html David |
BCS Inner circle 1083 Posts |
David,
Thanks for posting the photos. I have to say that I have never seen a set of Cups looking like that before. They look more like a set or a statue one would see in a park... watch out for pigeons... LOL. maybe giving them a coating of wax might give them a more finished look and some depth to the patina. I can't say that I like the effect, nor can I say that I dislike what you did. Take care, Bruce |
BeThePlunk Special user West of Boston, East of Eden 887 Posts |
Thanks, Bruce. I know it's now typical -- not everybody's taste, for sure. But they could be OK with the right script, I think. I'll work on it.
|
BCS Inner circle 1083 Posts |
David... yep... beauty is in the eye of the beholder...LOL.
Keep working on it and keep us posted.... I have enjoyed your findings. Bruce |
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Ever so sleightly » » Verdigris ? (0 Likes) |
[ Top of Page ] |
All content & postings Copyright © 2001-2024 Steve Brooks. All Rights Reserved. This page was created in 0.03 seconds requiring 5 database queries. |
The views and comments expressed on The Magic Café are not necessarily those of The Magic Café, Steve Brooks, or Steve Brooks Magic. > Privacy Statement < |