@MRSharpe:
Thanks for your lenghty answer.
Actually, my lessons are with 1 or 2 other students.
I indeed think that sleight+effect is a good combination, but at times I feel stuck by the sleight taught, as my "audience" is a bit of the suspicious type, and when they ask me for doing the trick again, this becomes a hassle because I can't adapt.
Just by looking at the online courses of Aaron Fischer, Matthew Goode or Encyclopedia of Magic,
I was able today to vary my effects and make the best of my tricks.

You say in your opionion, this is too much to assimilate? Actually we are just shown the sleights and tricks and have to try it,
but then we have to work these on our own.

The teacher is not exactly dogmatic about us presenting the same way he does, he said we have to develop our own stories about it, but he was about the fact that "if mundane audience identify the trick/sleight involved, you did something bad, this is not the presentation which is in cause".
While actually, the person who understood just thought a little. He explained me he saw nothing, but that he did understood the principle.
Maybe something in my attitude pointed this out to him, but actually, I feel this is because the way of presenting is unnatural for me, as if I showed the top and bottom card in a deck I would not do it the way it is done in this presentation (but I can't change this if I want to do the glides used in the trick...). My take was that the presentation felt unnatural as well for me as for my audience hence it burnt the trick. But maybe I am wrong.
The things you say about psychology and friends is very interesting, because while my friends yesterday were baffled by a few tricks with double lifts and glides and so on, one of them told me at times I was looking focused. I have to try to feel smoothier.
Thanks for the tips about process patter, I will keep that in mind. I like storytelling so this is not so much a problem.

I had the same thoughts about the fact he was loosing me as a student. I have a lot to read, a lot to discover and I don't think even with books, skipping on good teaching would be the right thing to do. But his manners to ensure I don't go away are a bit daunting.


You were very helpful and everything makes a lot of sense. Thanks a lot. I realized today, as I had to improvise, that first I still had to work on my tricks, then that I had quite a few sleights to vary for use in these tricks, and finally that I enjoyed that even more than I thought.


@DomKabala: Thanks for the names. I knew some, I will learn about the others too.

Film yourself, show it to us (even if you speak French). We'll tell you if you're telling the move. The glide is quite impossible to see, yet well known and easy to figure out, especially if we can immediately see that the card supposedly taken from the bottom has changed. Maybe you leaked some information not by botching the move, but by botching what comes after.

If you think about acting, you don't have to be yourself to be a good actor. A presentation very different from who you are may work very well! Otherwise, we wouldn't have many clowns, and people like Jim Carey would be schizophrenic guys...

P!

Thanks Ado for your answer. Sorry I didn't have had the time to make a video, but I introspected a bit and I guess that maybe I lacked to perform some things in the presentation which may have told the move.
On the other hand, discussion with the person who has seen through my move have shown that the way the routine was conceived didn't feel natural for him. The fact that I showed the bottom card, then turned the deck face hidden to make the glide and allegedly put the bottom card in the deck felt fishy from the very start to him.
It also looks like to me.

One thing in card magic is that most of the time, you have to make the moves the way you would naturally.
But you would never do that. You would take the revealed card and put it in the deck. Which indeed makes the
routine wrong, since you can't do that by using the glide.

Anyway, I will have new courses with my teacher, but this time I am gonna ask for more information about the trail of the whole course.
A friend of mine also put me in touch with another magician, he has not so good "magical entourage" (my teacher has been working with some big names on the french scene), but he's working in a circus and does a lot of things I am interested in (yogi feats and so on). I could take lessons from both.

I got myself a Copy of Roberto Giobbi "Cours de cartomagie moderne", translated french version of "Card Collage". I am looking forward to study also Royal road and Close up card magic, but I guess that for now I have plenty material to study (538 pages. For starters. I am still baffled by this. And excited too).

My concern now is learning to get fluid in some moves with cards or coins (for example for Charlier cut or for producing a coin from back palm or Downs palm). My hands feel like being cramped, moves jerky, with breakpoints instead of the whole thing going in one long fluid move.
I guess I have to work on my hand muscles by getting more flexible and stronger to have more control.
May I ask all of you knowledgeable people if we have a good reference topic about this, please?

Thanks for all.

Declic,
Sounds like you are on a good track. Regarding the trick with the glide, where you felt the required move was unnatural, you will learn that often a very small adjustment in your routine - location of props, adjustment of your glasses, remembering the need for a magical guesture, etc - can make an unnatural move appear natural. Ask your teacher about intransite actions, that should get you on track.

Regarding coin magic, the book that has been the standard and most comprehensive reference is Modern Coin Magic by JB Bobo. There are also many excellent DVDs on the subject. David Roth is one of the leading experts and Michael Aamar is a very clear teacher of all types of magic. Both have DVD series on coin magic. Now a cavete - much of coin magic is very difficult and takes years to master. Many of the standard routines, in my opinion, are more satisfying to fellow magicians than for laypeople. My recommendation here would be to focus on 'small object' magic. This would include some of the easier coin work, two-in-the-hand one-in-the-pocket, cups and balls routines, and others. All of these require a common set of slight skills applied in different ways.

Hope that helps. Good luck as you continue your journey!

Hudson

Thanks for your answer Mr. Hudson
I will get a look about these actions, thanks for this insight.
I already have Bobo, and practice the basics with my palming for now. I will look into the DVDs.
I will take lessons for coins after but want to start early to train my hands,
as I know this is long.
But I totally agree with your point about objects. Actually, I am really interested with being
able to play with rings, pencils and common objects, and view some of coins techniques in such way.

But I guess that I should work it full time for becoming really proficient.
Magic has so much I would like to discover...

Good evening

Now is the time I hit the wall and the ceiling most beginner must smash at full force once in a while.

I have a DL and a misdirection problem.

For my DL problem, well, my teacher taught me a method in which you riffle the back of the deck hold in mechanical grip with the thumb of the other hand, keep the break with the pinky, let the heat go away, then slide the card held on the deck in the strike double manner.
But I keep having the card sliding and separating. Even by having my fingers set around the deck to "square" the falling cards, it doesn't give good results.

I asked him advice about that and he stated that I had to find my way to handle DL.
So I showed him how I usually handle a card I take from the deck, and that I tried to develop the touch to "peel" two cards at once when doing it, but didn't manage it 100%, and he said that I could not manage it, but that I could use the thumb rifling with my handle so it was ok.
Actually, my way to naturally handle the card is merely to take the card in biddle grip and turn my hand up to show it.
And with good thumb placement I usually am able to seize both top cards.
But while being almost "invisible" and unsuspicious for the spectators, it is not consistant.
Sometimes, I make a TL. But when I want to make a real TL I don't always manage it, I most of the time get 2 or 4 cards, which is not good.

So I guess I should forsake my "own method", which is just a beginner stupid idea and go for proven methods.

But While I read about Strike DL, as said before I don't turn the cards well and don't get the good point there. Plus it looks artificial to me, to handle cards like flipping book pages.
Snap DL is also strange to me.

I also read about Bauer's TTT, Vernon double pushover, John Hammam DL, and Nash KO DL.
But couldn't find any beginning of description about these to see if I could fit to these
and eventually buy the needed material to test these, it should be worth it.
(I precise that I read a good deal of DL topic on the Café including the topic by the great reviewer).

I read Giobbi's take on this and will practice it, but it has a get ready and this is linked to my second problem, so I will go on later about this.
Do any of you knowledgeable folks know any DL method with no get ready that would look close to my natural handling?

My second problem is people that I can't misdirect.
I performed some tricks to friends recently and they were blown by those.
But yesterday I fell pathetically. I hated it and am so angry about it I want to really manage my problems.
This DL problem and the fact that I could not perform my tricks without flashing,
because everyone was close around and was looking permanently to my hands.
They are smart, curious, tricky, and wanted to know, so I couldn't get them to look elsewhere.
Hence no possibility to riffle the deck and take two cards without being seen or at least look suspicious, no one handed break,
and so on. I could handle only very simple tricks based on forcing they had to understand more than see,
but it was sad and it broke magic and I hate doing things so bad. And spoiling the people for whom I perform.

So, how do you handle this? I mean, even me who is a beginner, now that I know a few sleights, I can easily see parts of sleights and understand the mechanism when homing eyes on the hands of my teacher. I indeed only see the imperfect moves but when it is not a question of a hand not blocking correctly the line of vision, but a question of the move that have to be done in imperceptible ways (so not under the spec's gaze) of because it is "huge", like a one handed pinky break or a count or some get ready,
how do you do?

I know it must be possible, but for beginners, it is hard to be perfect, and on the other hand it is practice that makes perfect.
And practice, in real conditions, needs an audience. So how do you improve on the field without spoiling magic for people.
I don't want to train in front of my specs, and on the other hand while I can handle sleights when on my own,
when having such audience I can't perform well, so I shouldn't do it at all.

What would you have done?
Thanks by advance for your help and insights.

Declic - regarding the misdirection issue: learn some tricks that require no misdirection. That is, self working where no slights are required or where the slights required you do so well it doesn't matter if they are watching. (The latter should be your goal in any case). Even if you have only one trick of this nature, that will be enough. Generally when spectators stare at your hands the entire time, you have already done one trick too many. Do the self working one and stop. Always better to leave them wanting more.

As you get better, you will learn to manage the misdirection through the routining and the spectator will be compelled to look where you want them to look. Misdirection isn't getting the spectator to loom away from the action, but rather to look where they think the action is.

Hudson

Thanks again for your answers.
Yeah, I intend to be perfect with my sleights so that eventually it wouldn't count that a spectator would be
too wary or misplaced, but for now the only one I know are a bit angle sensitive and
a lot "dull hands" sensitive, so I still need practice.
For now I decided to cease trying to show off my magic.
Cause I don't know enough routines that please me really much (Some of the tricks taught by my teacher are good, but some
others include a lot of "playing dumb magician who makes mistakes" and actually I am so convincing (also because I also did mistakes once:)) that even after the climax,
they still believe that I was performing the routine bad, which spoils the climax and let them a little confused).

But also because I feel I need more knowledge to adapt and be able to improvise when cornered like that.
I will look for some self working sleights as you advice, that's pretty clever way to go around those problem indeed, and so evident that it shouldn't need to be said.
And finally I need more practice so that I don't reveal sleights because of bad work.

That will make my friend forget a little about their eagerness to catch me red handed,
and when I will come back they won't be able to do so.

For misdirection, that's a subtle nuance that I will work on.

Thanks a lot. That's very useful and appreciated.
And Giobbi's book you adviced is amazing. I devote much of my free time reading it^^.

I too have been working with Card College and can certainly recommend it. The other resource I have used is Aaron Fisher's Pathways to card mastery. If you like someone who goes into a lot of detail it is great. I have heard some say that there is too much time spent on each part, but personally from a beginners perspective I like it and feel its probably the closest I can get to private lessons, which I just can't afford right now.

As with many things I think its a case of read/watch some instruction, then spend your time practicing as much as you can. Then perhaps go back for a slightly different take on the same thing from another resource. I've found this helps me sometimes with bits I was struggling with.

Thanks for pointing me to another good ressource.
I saw Aaron give advices and present some tutorials for "basic training" on youtube.
His videos felt quite good.
I have also seen videos from Matthew Goode, they are pretty interesting too.
They can make for some principle illustration when books are not enough.